Manufacturers and Customer Support in Decline

morgan_moore said:
Runner crosses the line.. lovely slo mo shot

run up to them.. 'how was the race'

Just you gotta fiddle with a buch of settings to hear thier reaction. camera darwin award no. 7
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Runner crosses the finish line as I shoot with my FX6 @ 120 fps slow-mo with 1/300 shutter and no audio . . . I press assign button #1 . . . camera switches to 24 fps with 1/60th shutter and four channels of audio. Takes maybe 2.5 seconds for the camera to make the switch as I run up to the runner to ask them about the race.

How much simpler could it be than that?
Why would I want to shoot the interview at 120 fps even I could record sound at that frame rate?
And what about shutter speed? You're gonna have to change that no matter what if you want normal motion blur.
Even on my A1 I'd just have to switch the mode dial from #2 to #3, spin the shutter speed dial, and I'd be ready to roll with sound at 24p.
This is a non-issue.
 
It really is a non-issue, also for the fact that the hypothetical situation is unrealistic or rare for even the simple fact that the runners are catching their breath for at least 30 seconds. Sometimes you wouldn't even be able to interview them until later! [contracts]

Anyone in a position like this is either using a camera that can quickly adapt and change, working with multiple ops (most common), or using two cameras like photographers do (who sometimes even have 3 around their neck).

I'm all for changing systems and making them better, collectively, but have to be reasonable.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Runner crosses the finish line as I shoot with my FX6 @ 120 fps slow-mo with 1/300 shutter and no audio . . . I press assign button #1 . . . camera switches to 24 fps with 1/60th shutter and four channels of audio. Takes maybe 2.5 seconds for the camera to make the switch as I run up to the runner to ask them about the race.

How much simpler could it be than that?
Why would I want to shoot the interview at 120 fps even I could record sound at that frame rate?
And what about shutter speed? You're gonna have to change that no matter what if you want normal motion blur.
Even on my A1 I'd just have to switch the mode dial from #2 to #3, spin the shutter speed dial, and I'd be ready to roll with sound at 24p.
This is a non-issue.
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bingo bango baby
 
The lack of audio is a HUGE issue for some sports and styles of shooting, especially if you're a single shooter. If you have a whole camera crew capturing an event you can have one cam on slow-mo (without audio) and other cameras shooting "regular" speed with audio, but if you're shooting solo and want the option for slow motion in post and/or speed-ramping it's a giant pain in the ass.

E.g., filming at a car event last year (autocross) I had to shoot mostly in 60p with my FX6 (with audio) and then choose a few moments to capture in 120p for super slow motion. I then had to "recreate" audio for my 120p clips when I was speed-ramping them in the edit, trying to mix and match the audio from what I'd captured in 60p of specific cars (ideally in specific instances of driving).

At a different event I had a second shooter capturing others cars and areas on my a7Siii in 120p with audio and it was so much easier in post.

Really, there's no need for this *not* to be an option on the FX6, especially when it's an option on the a7Siii. As for shutter angle issues, if I know I'm shooting with an eye toward slowing things down in post then I simply opt for a slightly faster shutter speed than normal. At this point people are used to seeing sports in 60p, so the lack of "filmic" motion blur isn't an issue (and if anything the sharper image is preferred).

It's also nice to have the option of doing a slow-motion replay, complete with audio (i.e., regular speed clip w/ audio in the edit followed by slow mo). We do this all the time in weightlifting training and competition videos. My workaround when using the FX6 has been to shoot 120p in camera and then record a separate clip from the SDI feed on the Ninja V+ that has a mic plugged into it (i.e., the Ninja is capturing its own audio). I then have to sync the FX6 120p recording with the audio from the Ninja 60p clip in post. I love my FX6, but in 2023 this is an absurd workaround for what is otherwise an insanely powerful and capable camera.
 
So - the runner is catching thier breath. This is exactly when you want to get your question in because the answer is all puff and emotion.

Doug.. So if assign button 1 works that is great.

When I did running champs I was on the FS7 and yes you could hit the sq button (as long as your core was not 4k and your s+q hd you were not wanting to swap to ntsc/pal) and then there was a wait to change which seemed silly long to me.

Would I ideally do that interview at 100p - no of course not. Would I have it at 100p with sound and not miss it rather than miss it as I dongled with the fongle. Sure.

On the non sound HFR - I think it is a huge pain.. so often I want 'inspired' sound - which is not true synch but kind happened at nearly the same time.

Say the runner over the line the crowd will 'roar' or at least clap, sometimes in cycling there is a bell. These sounds are just what you need to paste over the line cross slomo shot even though the synch is not perfect (hell you could not even see the mouths of the cheering audience - just hear them)

And of course Norb - having a soundie and two cam ops is nice*

As for using multiple bodies this usually doesnt work for motion because a 'built' video body and mic is so much larger and more costly than a couple of dslrs.

Sure you can swing 2 dslr 16-35 and 70-200 but two fx6 with fluffy mics.. less so.

*in this case we had three cam ops. Me on the finish line, X on the waterjump and Y on the drone.
 
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You're both right. It doesn't have to be that difficult to toggle between slow-motion and regular motion. But there are still reasons to want sound in HFR. Maybe the runner smiles at the heavens or gives a hug to someone in passing during your interview, and you want to play that in slow-mo during the climactic montage at the end of your video. But you want the rest to be played in normal speed with synched sound.

That's an experience I have when shooting weddings. I shoot the majority of the b-roll in 60fps or 120fps. My general preference is to shoot it in S&Q mode so I can readily review the clips in slow motion and so the editor is less likely to miss the fact that it's slow-motion. But more and more I've switched to filming in a 60p or 120p timebase so I can capture natural sound. It's always a bummer to miss a group cheer or sigh or something nice someone says, etc.
 
When I filmed way more and had a bigger rig, I used to continuously run an audio recorder with a shotgun mic for stuff like that. Once in a blue moon I'd go back to pull something and somehow use the sound in an edit.

But maybe one day cameras will record two files, with two sensors.

One 24p and one 120p or 60p, with different shutter speeds.

(I think R&G said the Varicam does something similar now.)
 
I can switch almost instantly with the flip of a switch on my Amira or press of a button on my F55, but that still doesn't allow me to capture the one singular event in slow-mo and with audio simultaneously. This is something we run up against in the sports feature world regularly and it would be very helpful.
 
This may seem like a dumb question, but if you have a camera that CAN record audio with slow motion, what do you see in post? For example, if I shoot 24p @ 120 fps for 10 seconds I will have a 50 second clip when I get to post. Does the audio track fill the whole 50 seconds, or just the first 10 seconds?
 
Doug Jensen said:
This may seem like a dumb question, but if you have a camera that CAN record audio with slow motion, what do you see in post? For example, if I shoot 24p @ 120 fps for 10 seconds I will have a 50 second clip when I get to post. Does the audio track fill the whole 50 seconds, or just the first 10 seconds?
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On my a7siii/fx3, you can only record audio in high framerate by using a different time base (60p or 120p). So, the footage comes into your NLE as a real-time 120p file with synced sound. 10 seconds of filming yields a 10-second clip. You have to slow it down manually
 
Doug Jensen said:
This may seem like a dumb question, but if you have a camera that CAN record audio with slow motion, what do you see in post? For example, if I shoot 24p @ 120 fps for 10 seconds I will have a 50 second clip when I get to post. Does the audio track fill the whole 50 seconds, or just the first 10 seconds?
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It’s to have the ability to turn that slo-mo clip into a real-time clip with audio. Yes, you would have to do frame extraction and add motion blur for it to look like it was shot in 24, but you would at least have all the ingredients to make that cake. Say for example, you are shooting some players on the sideline of a basketball game right at the end as they are about to win the championship and the producer wants it in slow-mo for the heightened emotion and excitement of the jumping up and down and hugging and facial expressions as they scream in excitement and joy when the clock finally hits all zeroes and they win and rush onto the court. But think also about how good it is also having that in real-time with the sounds of those screams of excitement and whatever else any of them may say to each other or even directly to the camera with the roar of the fans. These moments are literal moments that have to be captured then and there in that moment. You stop to switch from one mode to the other and it’s likely gone.
 
Run&Gun said:
It’s to have the ability to turn that slo-mo clip into a real-time clip with audio. Yes, you would have to do frame extraction and add motion blur for it to look like it was shot in 24, but you would at least have all the ingredients to make that cake. Say for example, you are shooting some players on the sideline of a basketball game right at the end as they are about to win the championship and the producer wants it in slow-mo for the heightened emotion and excitement of the jumping up and down and hugging and facial expressions as they scream in excitement and joy when the clock finally hits all zeroes and they win and rush onto the court. But think also about how good it is also having that in real-time with the sounds of those screams of excitement and whatever else any of them may say to each other or even directly to the camera with the roar of the fans. These moments are literal moments that have to be captured then and there in that moment. You stop to switch from one mode to the other and it’s likely gone.
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You shoot 96fps with a 360-degree shutter. You can toss every other frame and you've got 48fps with a 180-degree shutter. Or you can combine 2 frames into a single frame and then toss the following 2 frames, and repeat for the entire sequence. Now you've got 24fps with 180-degree shutter. Of course, I don't know how to do that easily, but I'm sure it can be done. (Ask ChatGPT to write you a plugin for Premiere.) 48fps isn't that fast, but you could do the same thing at a higher framerate.
 
Got lucky three days ago with couple emails back and forth with support and then nothing. I asked for a call back or to provide a support number to call and never heard back. Support must be based in India (based on signature names) and their knowledge is limited in addressing technical issues. I heard back from two different people (must have different shifts!) One sent me a link to a cloud file to download a firmware to revert to an older version. After unzipping, it was not a firmware file. Then tells me to do a factory reset. I asked, "Could not find that option, how do you do the reset? Two days later I get a reply "in the menu". Spent so much time with the unit and nothing in the menu, so I asked again "where in the menu" (remember it takes at least 24 hours to hear back). He comes back with a more specific answer "under display info". I replied but there is no reset option under display info in the menu and requested a call back or a number to call to speed things up. And guess what, three days latter and nothing. I gave up on the unit as it's not worth my time.

Customer service and support is becoming a nightmare for a lot of consumers, at least some provide a chat option!!! It is sad that Atomos has neither telephone support or chat.
 
You can try twitter where a failure to respond is publically viewable
or linkedin connect to the md or head of sales
 
DLD said:
They had an executive Harlem shuffle too. Jeromy Young was fired for not being PC enough and then they went woke and now you're seeing the result.
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Please stop with saying this is all because of wokeness. That is such a lame excuse. He is a con artist. And he clearly created a culture that permeates the company.

Atomos shafts their own customers. That's us. It wasnt that they went woke.

Firstly he sailed his super yacht between states when there was a covid lock down that meant peoples parents and loved ones were dying without the comfort of their family because they were adhering to Australian strict quarantine. He wanted to go to a football match. Thats why he was fired in the first place.

The bigger issue is that when he was forced to resign over this public outcry, the woman that THEY hired didnt want to get on board with their very shady business practices that included knowingly shipping defective and inoperable merchandise.

This was done to essentially cook the books and artificially inflate their apparent sales. Its totally illegal and their new CEO did not want to play ball.

Atomos is a publicly listed company engaging in fraud against US as its customers. Why defend that behaviour as being some kind of cultural dog whistle deviance? Got to call that out as BS.


https://petapixel.com/2022/09/09/for...urities-fraud/


https://www.afr.com/rear-window/dire...0221004-p5bn3y
 
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