FS7: Making Life Easier?

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digitalinnovations

Well-known member
After a great discussion regarding whether there is anything to be gained at this point but moving from an FS7 to another platform there appears not to be much - short of Arri of course. So with the price-hike on the Amira and NAB only a few months away I have decided to stay put until we see what shakes out in camera/sensors.

Instead, I have decided to try to improve my day-to-day operation; making my work a little easier/faster. One of the ways I intend on doing this is by purchasing a cinema zoom and this where I’d appreciate some input from those with hands-on experience with the two lenses I am looking at... the Fujinon 20-120 and the Zeiss 21-100.

I currently have Milvus primes so that is a “plus” for going with the Zeiss 21-100. I like the Milvus line but for more RnG a zoom makes all the difference - even in interviews when you can quickly zoom in to change up framing is great. The Canon 24-105 has been a very useful range for RnG but the quality of the optics has been less than ideal - but am I gaining a ton over it? Obviously not in speed as both of these lenses are t3.5-3.9

The Fujinon 20-120 obviously has that extra reach but since they raised the price back up that extra 21mm costs $1,500. The speed difference between the two is negligible.

I really wish you could find a FF lens with this range and more of a constant f2.8 but the cost / physics of it make it out of my league and huge / heavy.

Am I missing some other gotchas? I read the Fuji vignettes on some sensors but I don’t think this is the case with the FS7? Also, I know there are also other options like the Fuji MK pair BUT I prefer to stay with a single lens solution and the e-mount only makes the less appealing because I can take them with me if I don’t stick with Sony for my next camera system and perhaps more difficult to sell if I don’t. So I’ve limited my search to PL or EF.
 
I haven’t looked at the Nikkors in general since they’re not “Cinema” zooms but this one in particular would be too slow. I’m actually borderline on the t3.9 but I think it would be serviceable.

I have looked at the EZ series but each invidual lens is either not wide enough or not long enough but I love the t2 (t3 in FF I believe). I’m trying to avoid lens changes and swapping the rear element would probably be even more time consuming and I have no idea if it’s possible in the field.
 
I'm surprised that someone who is considering a Nikon DSLR lens wouldn't just spring for the Sony 18-110 which is the obvious solution to your issue and a tremendous deal to boot. I have a friend with the Canon 17-120 and he actually prefers using the 18-110 for the smaller form factor. I understand your desire not to be limited by E mount but in this case the price makes that a less powerful consideration.
 
LennyLevy said:
I'm surprised that someone who is considering a Nikon DSLR lens...
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I'm not; it was suggested by Publimix

LennyLevy said:
...wouldn't just spring for the Sony 18-110 which is the obvious solution to your issue and a tremendous deal to boot...
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Based on what I know of that lens (admittedly not a lot) I was under the impression that it didn't deliver much over the Canon 24-105 F4 besides a little extra zoom range. I don't think it's truly par-focal and doesn't provide the image quality of the Zeiss or Fujinon- I realize these are only slightly faster (Fuji = 0.5 Stop, Zeiss only 0.1 at full zoom) but provide other image advantages. Please correct me if I am wrong though because I would be happy to look at it again and save like $6-9k :)
 
digitalinnovations said:
I'm not; it was suggested by Publimix



Based on what I know of that lens (admittedly not a lot) I was under the impression that it didn't deliver much over the Canon 24-105 F4 besides a little extra zoom range. I don't think it's truly par-focal and doesn't provide the image quality of the Zeiss or Fujinon- I realize these are only slightly faster (Fuji = 0.5 Stop, Zeiss only 0.1 at full zoom) but provide other image advantages. Please correct me if I am wrong though because I would be happy to look at it again and save like $6-9k :)
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Based on the Easier/Faster criterion it's definitely worth looking at the 18-110. I wouldn't consider it a cinema zoom, but certainly feels like an ENG zoom - so if that's the kind of run & gun that's needed, it definitely makes things easier. Put one of the cinema zoom lenses on the FS7 (with rod support, of course) and put it on your shoulder for half an hour, not an uncommon length for many shoots. You'll feel the muscle burn. Try it with the 18-110 and you can go another half hour, no problem.

Do I think the image quality of the 18-110 is worth $10k - $12k? No. But is it worth what it costs? Absolutely. So definitely worth a comparison look...
 
After having tried how the Sony 18-105 works on the FS5 I think the Sony 18-110 makes for a very nice combination with the FS7 in making that an even easier camera to work with. As for me I like a faster lens.
 
I don't know what you've read about the 18-110 but it got universally good reviews on this forum when it came out and its definitely better than they 24-105 in every area. Mine seems par focal and sharp enough for most uses. Way better than the 18-105. Wish it was 2.8 but what can you do for $3500. It would be way bigger at 2.8
 
digitalinnovations said:
After a great discussion regarding whether there is anything to be gained at this point but moving from an FS7 to another platform there appears not to be much - short of Arri of course. So with the price-hike on the Amira and NAB only a few months away I have decided to stay put until we see what shakes out in camera/sensors.

Instead, I have decided to try to improve my day-to-day operation; making my work a little easier/faster. One of the ways I intend on doing this is by purchasing a cinema zoom and this where I’d appreciate some input from those with hands-on experience with the two lenses I am looking at... the Fujinon 20-120 and the Zeiss 21-100.

I currently have Milvus primes so that is a “plus” for going with the Zeiss 21-100. I like the Milvus line but for more RnG a zoom makes all the difference - even in interviews when you can quickly zoom in to change up framing is great. The Canon 24-105 has been a very useful range for RnG but the quality of the optics has been less than ideal - but am I gaining a ton over it? Obviously not in speed as both of these lenses are t3.5-3.9

The Fujinon 20-120 obviously has that extra reach but since they raised the price back up that extra 21mm costs $1,500. The speed difference between the two is negligible.

I really wish you could find a FF lens with this range and more of a constant f2.8 but the cost / physics of it make it out of my league and huge / heavy.

Am I missing some other gotchas? I read the Fuji vignettes on some sensors but I don’t think this is the case with the FS7? Also, I know there are also other options like the Fuji MK pair BUT I prefer to stay with a single lens solution and the e-mount only makes the less appealing because I can take them with me if I don’t stick with Sony for my next camera system and perhaps more difficult to sell if I don’t. So I’ve limited my search to PL or EF.
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I don't own the Fuji 20-120(I have the Canon 17-120), but I have used it a few times with a client that has a few Amira's and several zooms, the 20-120, being one of them. I liked it a lot more than I thought I would. We were shooting production type stuff all on stix and the grip was removed, so I can't speak to how it is on the shoulder in an ENG situation. It weighs as much as the Canon, BUT it's balanced much better, so it feels lighter.

As far as it vignetting, I saw it do it on the wide-end on the Amira when we were shooting UHD/4K("open-gate"?). It was fine when we shot HD. I actually said something about it to one of my sales reps and they said it shouldn't, but I know what I saw in the VF.
 
Jeremy - I would very much suggest renting / trying out the 18-110 before you buy something twice the price. Will the images from it blow you away? No. Will it make your life easier for certain type of shoots? Yes.
I resisted it for the same reasons you are... not "cinematic" / sexy enough. But it really is a great tool in that "easier / faster" department.
 
I have the Fujinon 20-120 and love the lens. Awesome quality feel in the hand, it shoots gorgeous pictures and I'm glad I went for a lens that has a constant T stop. I have it rigged with a Zacuto base plate and accessories, as well as a gratical eye from Zacuto. It balances well on the shoulder, especially given that I use V mount batteries with a zwiss plate.

I gave very serious consideration to the Zeiss Lightweight Zoom 20-100. I liked that it was lighter and would have matched well with other Zeiss primes should I ever decide to go that route. That said, the availability of the Zeiss lens was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy backordered, and in the end that was a deal breaker based on the timing of my purchase.

Regarding price on the Fujinon 20-120, here a couple of tips: 1) Forego the servo zoom to save about $5K on the price and 2) Find a good sales rep and tell them you want a b-stock lens. Your bound to find one as I did and save enough $$$ so it may even end up being cheaper than the Zeiss.

You can't go wrong with this Fujinon lens! Someday I might add an after market zoom motor, but for now I don't miss not having it. I do slow zooms on camera next to never for my work!
 
+1 for the Fujinon 20-120.

Yes, it costs significantly more than the Sony 18-110 or the Fuji e-mount MK's. But consider that, because it is PL mount, the Fujinon 20-120 should have a better resale value than the zooms that are e-mount.


You did say you were considering a "cinema zoom" and the Fujinon 20-120 is inarguably more of a "cinema zoom" than is the Sony 18-110.

I doubt that you would ever regret getting the Fujinon 20-120. I can't say the same for the Sony 18-110.

[ fyi- I own the Sony 28-135mm, the Sony 18-105mm, and the Sony 18-110. I've used the Fuji MK's and they are without a doubt a class above the Sony servo zooms. ]
 
Thank you all for a bunch of good info! I am renting one of the lenses for a shoot this week actually; the Zeiss 21-100. I went with that one, more or less, because I could get it for the days I needed it but will rent the Fuji 20-120 for the next appropriate project. I may try to rent the Sony 18-110 as well for a comparison to the Fuji and Zeiss - not only in image but in function. Sometimes there is a balance between having the function you need and image quality/character...as long at the Sony produces clean, sharp images some of it's benefits (stabilization, range) may offset the fact that it is "not a Zeiss"...some of the "character" can be added in the grade and in how you shoot the footage to begin with.

Sad news though; it appears the Fujinon 20-120 w/ no servo has been discontinued! I have no idea why but that must've happened within the past few days - just my luck. That price difference between the Zeiss and the Fujinon just became a much larger obstacle and I do not need the servo so it would just sit in a box. Ugh!

Thanks again to all of you. It's great to have all of our various experiences to draw from!
 
I think none of these zooms have the speed/range you need to do a whole shoot.

Most of my shoots would also need a 14, a 50 1.2, a macro and a 180+

This is not a problem because the zoom can form the core of a great lens set.

I would however consider carefully how quickly the zoom can be removed.. having shot with the CN17 which must be supported with rods swapping it out to put on a macro or bigger tele was a right pain.

I would certainly try and choose a zoom that does need supporting or at least has an excellent quick release and also does not require rods so long as to appear in shot when using a wide prime.

Removing a cine zoom and its rods when you need a 'proper' wide shot does not make life easy :)

You may want to consider the Stigma 18-35 50-100 T2 lenses which may make an appealing pair for many shoots

To me (a manual lens nut!) the Sony zoom appeals for both price and stabilisation reasons - I think it is probably 'good enough' for many shoots

--

As for the (manual) Nikkor 50-300 well Id investigate the canon FD 50-300 if you like consistent focus direction. The nikkor is way from parfocal but beyond that (used with a speedbooster) a very handy tool, excellent smooth manual focus and a great range especially when used with 2x crop slo motion - it basically out does any modern stills lens for being great for video making. It is part of my standard kit for daytime shoots (I usually lose if for a 180/2.8 prime for night work - that is T2 with the booster) - The ED nikkor 50-300 is not $200 though

S
 
morgan_moore said:
I think none of these zooms have the speed/range you need to do a whole shoot. Most of my shoots would also need a 14, a 50 1.2, a macro and a 180+ This is not a problem because the zoom can form the core of a great lens set.
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I agree that there doesn't appear to be "one lens to rule them all" but I do think you can find a lens that, as you said, forms the "core". I do have the 70-200 f2.8 so if I do need more reach, it's there but for my shoots it is more rare than the 20-ish to 100-ish range. The speed is my biggest complaint on either the Fuji or Zeiss.

morgan_moore said:
I would however consider carefully how quickly the zoom can be removed...
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That is definitely a concern that I have but I have lived on the 24-105 f4 (speed-boosted and not) for entire RnG shoot days and never switched. For my type of work I typically have the luxury of being able to move around and can "zoom with my feet" when needed but being able to crash-zoom from a wide to tight mid-action is something I want and find it very useful for post.

morgan_moore said:
You may want to consider the 18-35 50-100 T2 lenses which may make an appealing pair for many shoots
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I am assuming you are referring the Sigma Cinema Zooms? I would assume the focus breathing and lack of parfocal (I may be wrong on that) ability would cancel them out for most of you. How do you find that gap between 35mm and 50mm? I could see that as being troublesome but perhaps not. Not totally discounting those lenses by any means but puts me swapping lenses far more often than something in the 20-100 range.
 
From your description (RnG) I think the sony is it - although check minimum focus as that might be an issue

The sigmas basically replace a bag of primes - (aka not RnG where you probably want to pop between 18, 50, and 100 all the time) - personally I dont think the 35-50 hole is significant.

Ive used the zeiss 70-200 and I found the focus throw way too long for solo operating. (I dont know if the 21-100 is the same)

Whatever you get - try it physically first :)

S


THere is of course one lens to rule them all - but it is extremely heavy and expensive! https://www.arrirental.de/camera/lenses/35mm-zoom-lenses/zeiss-zooms/master-zoom/
 
I would have little hesitation to go for the Sony 18-110 if it had a macro mode. That's why the Caninon 24-104 is so popular as it covers the most used range, has IS and works almost as a macro lens.
 
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