F35: Make it more filmic

[Chris Langer]

You could use this same philosophy in all Sony cameras that have Cine EI? I was thinking of trying this with my FS7. Problem is, if I rate it two stops higher, I will need crazy ND to rate it at a higher Cine EI to get the same benefit. I know its different sensors and technology but I am curious nonetheless! Thanks for your insights and sample footage! Lovely look you have created.

 

[SJX]

Thanks mac. I understand this. But the F35 is not RAW. So you can't change the way you expose in post. How will you shift the DR then?
Exactly this:

On a Red camera, which captures raw files, the chain ends right after the AD conversion basically, and that is what it gets recorded. The rest of the process is done in your PC.
On a Sony F35, you get the full chain until the pretty output.

Yes. This is why I thought with F35 you can't slide DR in post. Because decicion is already made. But in RAW you can slide DR.

This needs to be done at a high bit depth (10-16bit) to get decent quality. In a Red camera this is done in your computer (in redcine or Scratch or whatever you like to use), in the Alexa this is done in the camera if you're recording Log, and in the case of the F35 this ISO boost is done in the grading (if you are shooting in CINE EI mode). This is how Cine-EI is supposed to work. .

Yes, RED is done in post because is RAW. Alexa is done in camera. But F35 is not done in camera and you can't do in post because is not RAW. This is how I always understood this. Where is my mistake? Thanks.

 

[Grug]

Thanks mac. I understand this. But the F35 is not RAW. So you can't change the way you expose in post. How will you shift the DR then?

With LUTcalc, you can create custom LUTs that will shift the exposure (without affecting anything else) however you want. It's quick, simple and gives you a universal shift in exposure, so there's no fiddling around with luminance curves in resolve trying to get things right.

I have LUTs that shift the F35 from SLOG to SLOG3 (for easier grading) at both the base 400 ISO and one pushed a stop to 800 ISO. The LUT lifts your exposure, then you just add a little noise reduction to bring the footage inline with your 400 ISO material, and voila! You've just pushed (or pulled) your footage, and shifted your DR up or down.

 

[macgregor]

Thanks mac. I understand this. But the F35 is not RAW. So you can't change the way you expose in post. How will you shift the DR then?
Exactly this:


Yes. This is why I thought with F35 you can't slide DR in post. Because decicion is already made. But in RAW you can slide DR.



Yes, RED is done in post because is RAW. Alexa is done in camera. But F35 is not done in camera and you can't do in post because is not RAW. This is how I always understood this. Where is my mistake? Thanks.

I feel that you have the concept of raw wrong.

 

[vlodeck]

So from what I gather the concept is to shoot 2 stops too dark and then slide the exposure up while grading?

 

[starcentral]

Yep you got it. That is the effect of rating a 500 ISO native camera as 2000 ISO instead since 2000 is 2 stops brighter than 500.

When I did this on my F55 as a test the color shift was absurdly horrendous. I haven't tried it again since. I bet the F35 handles color shifting when pushing / pulling much better than the newer CineAlta's do but that is pure speculation on my part.

On the opposite spectrum of MacGregor's test, there is a theory floating around that the top 2 stops contain nothing but specular highlights so that if you were to overexpose by 2 stops and bring it down in post for an improved signal to noise you would not be losing anything from the highlights. (basically that would be rating the F35 at 125 ISO then take exposure down in post while grading).

What do you guys think about that?

 

[Samuel H]

^ That second theory doesn't sound good to me. Even if "the top 2 stops contain nothing but specular highlights", by overexposing you're making some of your talent's skin become specular highlights. Or their clothes. Or the background.
Of course, if nothing is even close to clipping, you can expose to the right and it won't be a problem. Same if you have a camera with lots more range in the highlights than in the shadows, as is the case with my cheaper Sonys using slog2 and an 8-bit codec that's not very forgiving in the shadows. For the F35, does anybody really doubt macgregor knows what's the best way to use it? XD