MajorBug: OIS causes glitches like dropouts

alpi69

alpi69

Veteran
Soon after I got my HVX I had occasions when I saw the image jump on the EVF or LCD. At first I thought it was my eyes playing tricks. I told it to a fellow HVX user and he confirmed it to me. Another guy I called also had it happening to him. So it is apparently on all cams. It never turned up in editing really because those glitches didn´t appear in critical shots.

But this weekend I was shooting a halfpipe event with lots of horizontal and vertical movement and these glitches jumped at me regularily. So I started breaking it down:
It happens on tape and P2, it happens with or without LCD open, in EVF Auto or ON. It happens handheld and tripod.

The only way I think that turned it off was by deselecting the OIS. I am not 100% certain, but after turning the OIS off I beleive it is gone. I will post a piperun later when it happened 3-4 times to show you. It looks like when there is a strong contrast in the picture (e.g. dark elements on snow) the trackers of the OIS get confused and adjust much too vehement causing the image to jump 10 - 20 pixels. It looks pretty much like tape-dropouts and is a major problem for me and others.

I know OIS should be off when on the tripod, but I never had this problem with the DVX or any other camera. And I had it also on handheld shots.

Can anyone confirm this problem here? Is it only on the PAL version? Is this a problem that can be solved by firmware?
 
Yes we've seen reports like this before. I turn the OIS off all the time.

I never recall it happening on the DVX either. It's my guess (and it's only a guess) that people kept clamoring for more aggressive OIS than the DVX offered, so Panasonic may have juiced it up for the HVX, and then we're getting a side effect of it being more aggressive.

But it's not limited to PAL cams. I've seen many more reports of "jumping" footage when using OIS on a tripod with the HVX than we ever saw with the DVX, and I'm certain it's the same thing.
 
Ok, thanks Barry. As long as I know what it is (proud of myself for breaking it down correctly ;-) ) I can live with it. So from now on OIS is a no go, as I had it in handheld situations as well.
 
I have not yet experienced any image breakup or jumpy images, and I use OIS both when hand-holding the camera, and frequently also when it is on a tripod.

I work with dancers, and on floors that are sprung (a performance floor that has an elastic subfloor), a dancer that lands after a jump can transmit vibrations across the entire floor. If the camera and tripod are on the sprung floor, the image will be unusable without OIS.

I'm on the V2.03 firmware with a NTSC camera, but even before the upgrade, I don't recall ever seeing this problem.
 
It's certainly not widespread, but I've seen it once or twice and I've heard a few people mention it here and on the Cow. Mainly they get it when using the cam on a tripod and panning; the OIS will "fight" the pan until it exceeds its capability, then it'll just "give up" and re-center; it's during that process that the image will "jump".

For mild handheld work I think the OIS works just fine, and better than the DVX did (not quite XLH1-caliber though!) But for heavy sports or something, lots of action, lots of running around etc., it can get pushed too far and "jump".
 
I find when you go hand held it's crucial. Otherwise it looks like old technology , which feels really amateur. I have heard too that it's in the panning where there may be problems, because you are using one image stabalizer(tripod) and a second one on the camera that apperently will try to calm down your pan. I have not experienced that yet. But i have seen jitterness in my timelapses (locked tripod) . I did a test and took the ois off, and the camera really started to jump. I never posted the results because the 2 clips were different. But here's the clip. Look at the roof tops shaking like crazy. This was shot inside, with an open window, and some wind coming in. The second shot has ois on (which is what i will keep doing)
http://www.stickypod.com/videos/data/500/OIS_test.mp4
 
Interesting... some people claim it is necessary and I personally have yet to find ANY situation where it actually worked well. The OIS on the HVX is terrible, it is supposed to be optical but it works like the old Sony digital OIS systems.

The only cameras in this class that have good OIS is the Canon cameras and they have to with their longer lenses.

The HVX is a great little camera but the LCD and OIS are the achilles heel.



ash =o)
 
When I shot football with an XL1s I always had a hard time tracking fast action if an OIS were turned on. I'd overshoot or undershoot the ball, etc.

So I turned it off, even when shooting this sort of action handheld.

My HVX occasionally shows the "OIS jump" even when handheld, especially if my handheld shot is exceptionally steady. It doesn't happen very often. So it could be that each unit is slightly different.
 
I think it really depends on the shot. I can repeat it easily with snow and dark objects in the snow. Can this be fixed with firmware?
 
I would contact Panasonic and provide them with a sample video that exhibits the problem. I assume the symptoms are also evident when you play the video back in the camera, and not just after you get the video into your NLE and possibly transcode it?
 
I would disagree that OIS is terrible. I use it constantly and I have no problems with it. I actually find that the OIS is problematic where there is slow and little movement, such as you might find on a tripod or when trying to hold a handheld shot steady with a bit of a zoom on. With larger handheld moves following a subject I have never had an issue. I have seen the jump on but only on the tripod.

My opininion is that the jump is caused by a certain degree of motion. That the OIS is compensating for a certain range of movement within a frame but suddenly the range it can deal with is exceeded and the picture 'jumps' back to center. If you keep within the OIS range or move quickly enough that the OIS doesnt try to compensate it seems to work perfectly well.

I find it very effective. It makes a huge difference to the stability of the shots.
 
I don't think that the OIS system suddenly can't deal with the motion anymore, I think it decides that this is in fact intentional motion and not camera shake, so it better stop compensating for it.
 
We are on day 4 of a 65 day shoot, we are shooting on 2 HVX 202's (PAL). At least once a day we are seeing this problem on both cameras. We are shooting 90% handheld and really need the OIS on. We have swapped out one camera already with Panasonic and have had the same problem on that one as well ( from a different batch). We are resigned to the fact that we will just have to keep ours eyes on it and hopefully it won't appear during a take. This does seem a bit ridiculous - I feel like we have bought a faulty product!? Any thoughts or sympathy much appreciated.
 
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