Magic Bullet and 1080i HDV

D

dustindementia

Member
I am using the Z1U and want to convert to 24P.

How much resolution is lost when Magic Bullet converts 50i 1080i HDV to 24P 1080P?

Need some peace,
Dustin :undecided
 
I don't believe 720p is an option on the Z1U. Correct me if I am wrong though.

You probably loose 50% of vertical resolution, technically speaking. However, some de-interlacers have clever programing that allows them to retain data from the discarded field. Graeme Natress is the resident pro on such matters. I'm not sure how MB does it.

However, to the eye, this loss isn't too bad. Try some tests to see for yourself. It is noticeable, but not terrible. If you are starting with 1080 lines, the picture should still be pretty sharp, even on a big screen.

If you started with 50i, you may also have problems going to 24p. This would involve slowing down the footage, (or dropping every 25th frame!!). I would go to 25p, which is very easy and clean, and can still go for film transfer if neccessary.
 
I've heard repeatedly that CF25 looks horrible.

I know that Cineframe modes throw away half of vertical resolution. Does Magic Bullet 24P conversion lose the same amount of resolution?
 
CF25 doesn't look "horrible", it looks like 25p but with lower vertical resolution. CineFrame 25gets you way more than half of your vertical resolution -- you get about 540 lines in Cineframe 25, vs. about 775 in 1080i.
 
dustindementia said:
I've heard repeatedly that CF25 looks horrible.

I know that Cineframe modes throw away half of vertical resolution. Does Magic Bullet 24P conversion lose the same amount of resolution?
Click to expand...

Ok, don't take this the wrong way, but I've gotta ask: You have a Z1, you want 24P or alternately 25P footage and haven't at least TESTED the CF25 mode to juge it for yourself? If I had a Porsche 911 and a couple of people told me its not fast, wouldn't I take it for a spin to make sure? But I digress.

My recommendation would be to test CF25 and see if YOU think it looks horrible. Best of all, if you think it looks good, you'll save yourself a ton of rendering time. I'm not too familiar with the HDV workflow, but I imagine if you're deinterlacing and stay in MPEG2 based HDV for the whole process, you'll also be recompressing your footage and losing a generation of quality (perhaps someone can clarify).

By the way, you'll probably get more accurate help if you explain what your final output is. From your original post its not clear if you're shooting for an NTSC DVD or planning on doing a film out for a festival.

Philip Williams
www.philipwilliams.com
 
I want to create a version in HD for a Windows Media DVD and a standard version for SD DVD.

I've heard that SD DVD players can read a 24P formatted DVD and ad the pulldown for SD interlaced TVs. Is that true?

Has anybody completed a successful 24P project from Magic Bulleting Z1 footage?

I have tested CF25 and I am uncomfortable going with it.

Thanks,
DD
 
ummm, you have tested CF25 and you are unconfortable!!!
Ok let's have a look. if I understand well you have CF25 on one side and magic bullet on the other.

I'm a developer and been working on deinterlacing algorythm, so if you are interested, here is my opinion.

when the Z1/FX1 deinterlace with CF25, they have data straight from the CCD(before compression) and then run their interpolation algorythm, then compress the deinterlaced image ready for you use.

Now with magic bullet, the process is exactly the same but there is one major difference, magic bullet has to work with compressed file which means that the interpolation is not going to be that accurate because the image have suffered with artifact due to the compression.

now I would suggest that you use CF25 and use the Aspect HD 3.2 it will do a conversion to 24p.

Anthony
 
Now if I might add, it seems that everyone wants to have this perfect cinema/film look, and the solution is simple, it does involve a bit of DIY unless you have the money.

1) we know that the image needs to be deinterlaced and CF25 with the sony does a good job.

2)the lens that are on camera like sony,panasonic are nice but they have a very shallow depth of field so you need to have a 35 mm adaptor! 3 solutions:
P+s tecknik --> around £8000 ( I think that this is very expensive for what it is)
redrockmicro.com --> around £300 ( very cheap but the image is up side down so it's hard to film like that.

DIY--> I'm 3 weeks away from completing my 35mm adapter and I will be able to use the lens I have. I have invested arounf £150 in a ground glass, a mount, and pentaprism.
(takes time and patience but it's worth it and it's kind a simple to do)

a 35 mm lens will give you depth of field and a 3d effect on movement. all together you feel like watching a real film...

Anthony
 
Deinterlace

Deinterlace

Cineframe modes on the Sony FX1 deinterlace and make a 24 or 30 fps progressive effect, correct? But then they redistribute the frames back into 60i for recording onto the tape. SO wouldnt you need to deinterlace again anyway?

http://www.adamwilt.com/HDV/cineframe.html

I shot a short movie in 60i with the intent of deinterlacing using the best available software. Hopefully I can find a good solution.
Anyone have any recommendations?

Gfilm? Magic Bullet?
 
Barry_Green said:
CF25 doesn't look "horrible", it looks like 25p but with lower vertical resolution. CineFrame 25gets you way more than half of your vertical resolution -- you get about 540 lines in Cineframe 25, vs. about 775 in 1080i.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your enlightenment, useful as always, 'cause the objectivity that you usually have in the statements that you produce. Your opinions and advices are always (the 2nd one in the same post) important to everybody in this business. And you don't keep for yourself! Even if it's a Pana tip... Even if not always we are in agreement...:) Panasonic ones, Sony ones, etc. That's why you push me and a couple of others, as well, to HVX with your words. Even before you ever heard my name. Congrats for your work here!
 
Dremmwel said:
2)the lens that are on camera like sony,panasonic are nice but they have a very shallow depth of field so you need to have a 35 mm adaptor! 3 solutions:
P+s tecknik --> around £8000 ( I think that this is very expensive for what it is)
redrockmicro.com --> around £300 ( very cheap but the image is up side down so it's hard to film like that.
Anthony
Click to expand...

Erm not really beacuse you can always get an external LCD monitor and use that either upside down or use the flip functions that some LCD monitors come with, using a M2 is a better choice (IMHO) because you do not have to use extra optics like your DIY version, less optics = cleaner optical pathway. Thats not to say that your images will be no good, because if your happy with the outcome thats the most important thing.

Anhar
 
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