MAC SATA RAID Array inside PC Neighbor

Rush

Rush

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Here is an idea for a SATA Raid 0 super cheap solution:

Buy 8 x 300GB SATA150 Seagate NCQ drives ($0.56/GB, cheapest price for best value with lowest access time) for $1344, making 2.4TB.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148064

House them in my existing tower PC with plenty of storage, cooling, and power.

Run SATA 24" cables right next to it, to a Sonnet Tempo-X 8 eSATA card on my MAC Dual G5.
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/tempo-x_esata8.html

making a 190MB/sec sustained read/write rate up to 90% capacity:
http://www.sonnettech.com/publicfiles/pdfs/eSATA_benchmarks.pdf

Advantages:

Bypasses need to purchase a Sonnet Jive and tax the G5's powersupply and temperature balance:
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/g5_jive.html

Bypasses need for an expensive or loud external SATA array:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817122302

Half the price, and 4x faster than a 2TB Firewire800 array, which is $2800.

If you want to move the G5, just disconnect the cables on the back and let them hang from the PC.

Any thoughts on why this may be a bad idea, besides transportation (not an issue for me)?
 
This is awesome! 2.4TB RAID for less than $1600. Unreal!

I already have a G5 PowerMac, but would need a PC for the Hard disks. What PC case is good for holding 8 Hard Disks? It's essentially just a box that holds the disks, right? No operating system, CPU, graphics card needed... just a case? Or am I completely wrong?
 
Thanks for posting, Rush. I think there's lots of us trying to figure what's the best way to go for HD storage. My concern with your proposal is all the cables. I'm considering the lacie s2s because it's cleaner that way and portable enough to take on location, but I'd rather find something cheaper.
 
Oh cool, I thought everyone was going to tell me it's crazy :grin: Awesome. You're welcome fellas.

Yeah that was my main concern as well, the cables, but I measured the distance from the back of my mac to the HDD inside the PC next to it, and it was under 24". I just have to be super careful and not let anything touch those cables, maybe using a cable wrap or tube. Yes definitely the Lacie is the way to go, and that is the way I would go if I had the money. They are slick, transportable, hot-swappable, etc. But rockbottom minimum, so I only have to buy the drives and the card, is all I got now :laugh: In prep for the HVX.

jrv3034, essentially any server or full tower case would do, you just need to make sure that the drives sit on the bottom of the case in 3.5" slots, rather than up high in the 5.25" slots. Mine does that. However, I think I will start with 4 drives and work up to 8. That is the beauty of the Sonnet card, it is expandable from 2 to 8 for cheap. One thing I wish existed, was a Sonnet card that had a breakout cable that went 24", then exploded into 8 12" SATA nodes. I guess I can get 39" SATA cables if need be, and wrap them together:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16812105912 $1.99/ea when you buy 6+ (Even though someone is saying that is not true length, it probably only 36")

Another thing I thought about, if cable length becomes an issue, is that some Antec cases come with breakaway 3.5" HDD enclosures that hold 4 drives. Free. It is the same one that Sonnet sells for $99 (the JIVE). I already have one, so I would just need one more from a used Antec case on the net, and I can set all 8 drives on the bottom of the server housing, closest to the MAC, and not even tie up any of the 3.5" slots in it, like this:
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/g5_jive.html

All I need to buy for my server to make this happen is a 400W quiet power supply for $40.
 
I've definitely thought about a solution like that for storage for quite a while - inspired by hdforindies originally - You also need to make sure with that quantity of drives you have proper cooling - which it sounds like you do - but I felt like it wasn't stressed enough.
That comes relatively close in price to the macgurus.com case - but I like the idea of that case being *made* for massive amounts of harddrives...
 
Nice solution Rush. Thanks for the info, and links. It sounds like this is a good alternative- and much more affordable.
 
You're welcome! As far as cooling, I have 2 input fans and 2 output fans. They will all be turned down to stay quiet. Drives generally don't need much cooling, as long as there is sufficient airflow in the case so that it doesn't become a heat bottleneck. I will prolly also get a small thermometer with a sensor lead, so I can actively get a rough readout of overall case ambient heat. I already have 4 PC's in towers, so I won't have to buy a case at all. Some others might, but I bet you if you go behind a major computer builder, you will get a free case from the trash :grin: Not recommended, but y'know, depends on the budget. :beer:
 
Im not so familiar with mac.... 2TB Firewire800 array, which is $2800. How does this connect to the MB? Does it have a faster through put than the pci slot e tempox 8 goes in to? This I could see would / maybe the only bottle neck in your system.
 
Hi ncje, FW800 is limited to about 50MB/sec. sustained throughput at best. SATA solutions with 4 raid 0 drives can do 190MB/sec. - sustained up to 90% capacity. That will improve file access times, reduce dropframes even on uncompressed footage, and just make the machine/timeline much more responsive to shuttling. It will also improve rendering times because the CPU can write to the drives faster. Oh and ofcourse multi-cam will allow better resolution with such a wide bandwidth.
 
Damn you Rush. With out even going through EVS you have cost me more money.:>
Great idea. I have been thinking on how I was going to make this all work, and you created the recipe. Now it is time to start baking.
 
You're welcome! I am hoping to get my own stove going soon, as soon as this project I am bidding on gets in.
 
Rush,

I remember stumbling across this post a while back, and now I'm thinking of proposing this idea to the powers that be at work, to upgrade their storage solution. There's no video involved, just MASSIVE amounts of graphics files for printing and marketing.

Their filling system as of now includes 2 120 gb servers, one for marketing, one for production, and each department also has at least 500 CD's worth of filed-away backups containing stuff not on the servers. They have an 'auto catalog' feature that allows you to search the backup CD's without laoding them, just for reference, but it hardly works consistently, not to mention the hassle of doing the search and then pulling out 3-4 CD's that might be what you're looking for. Needless to say this is really outdated.

Everything they have now on CD could fit onto 2 300 gb HDDs, allowing everyone remote access to all files, instead of having to CONSTANTLY go back to the CD jackets for files to work from. They could still burn optical backups, but they would function as BACKUPS, not the 'manual file server' they currently are. And on top of that, they could easily use Dual-Layer DVD's and reduce their number of optical storage disks roughly 13:1.

The company has gotten smaller over the last couple of years, the IT dudes have a small office full, from floor to ceiling, of old PC tower cases. This is why you're idea intrigues me so much!

The server they're running now is on an older G4 power mac, I'm not even sure if it's a dual G4, but I'll investigate what SATA card options exist for the machine. All workstations are macs.

As with everything corporate, they never want to spend the money for upgrades, (some of the machines are still running Illustrator 9 in Mac OS Classic!) so if I could put together a proposal with actual figures and show them how much they get for the minimum expense vs. how inefficient their current system is, they may go for it.

The only concern/question I have is expandability and hot-swapping. Any idea how this works? How can you swap out a drive that's part of a RAID without data corruption? And what would you say would be the best stategy for adding more space, do you have to re-build the RAID array from scratch every time you add a new HDD with the disk utility and how does this affect the data on the drives?
 
Hi dpw, excellent! :cheesy: Please let me know how it works out. As far as hot-swap, I think there is a raid 5 that has a controller drive holding the info from all 4 drives, and you can remove any one drive, add a new one, and the array will still function. I think to upgrade, you have to make a new array and copy the info, since all drives have to be identical capacity. If you are not in an array, and just have loose drives, you can upgrade anytime by adding more storage, and copying contents. But then you lose the fast bandwidth.
 
My 2 cents. I am looking at the G5 Jive. This bay goes in bottom back corner of G5 and holds 3 drives. Put 3 500GB drives in that, put one more 500 in second bay of G5. That gives you total of 5 drives at 2.25TB (using G5 250GB stock drive). Raid em how you like. I would use a Sonnet Tempo 4X4 card. This would give me an extra 4 ports to add another 2TB externally later

I am planning to make a mirror copy of my 250GB on an external drive for OS and program backup.

This solution may cost a few dollars more, but puts it in all in one box. If you wait another 4 monthes the 500GB will be $250. each

Costs:
Sonnet G5 Jive $99.
Sonnet Tempo $199.
4 500GB drives $330 each $1320.
Total $1620.00

Sonnet drive bay:
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/g5_jive.html
 
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