M2e/MicroXe/HVX/Nikon - Edge to Edge Sharpness/lowlight tests...initial thoughts.

[bmw1602]

Having just gotten my m2e back from repair after the motor stopped spinning 15 mins of use after receiving it after a long wait..... I figured I start my install off with a lens/adaptor test. Just to see where I'm at.

I trust that the motor problem was a fluke, It's spinning like it never had before and they were also nice enough to send me additional black knobs since they missed a few on my initial shipment. (I had selected black knobs on my order)

It's important to note that on my first setup/alignment before I sent the unit back I noticed a pretty bad edge "softness"...

Once I got it back I took some time and got the unit about as perfect as I could.

Few mins later at our stage here at work, I setup some lights and some focus charts.

All tests performed on my HVX200, camera set @ f5.6 and the lenses @ f5.6 as well

Other Camera settings:
MF89
Z95
720pn
24fps

Lenses Tested:

Nikkor
300mm f4.5 ai-s
70-200mm f2.8 VR Zoom
135mm f2.8 ai-s
105mm (macro) f2.8
50mm f1.2 ai-s
35mm f2.0 ai-s
24mm f2.8 ai-s
20mm f2.8 ai-s
17-55 f2.8 DX zoom

Here they are...

I have video clips of all this but I think the stills will suffice.

These are focus charts, pay attention to the moire pattern.... the more you can resolve towards the center....the more in focus you are. So just look at the different patterns on each chart in the different areas of the frames and you can judge for yourself exactly how sharp it is.

All in all I think the results are impressive. Certainly Waaaay better than my first attempt. There does seam to be the same amount of CA on the left edge of the frame. It's consistent thru all the lenses.....so the CA doesn't seam to be lens related. Plus it's alot heavier on the left than the right.

This does tell me that the initial setup/alignment is crucial. careful setup/alignment will reward you with good sharpness.

So here they are...from telephoto to wide angle

300mm

70-200mm

135mm

105mm

50mm

35mm

24mm

20mm

17-55 @ 17mm

17-55 @ 55mm

So make your own judgements.

As for me long as this thing keeps spinning, I'm a happy man.

Their customer service while a bit slow to respond, did treat me right.


Here's my first daytime shots

with the 70-200

During Dusk .... "magic hour"

SAMMY the cat...

NIGHT TIME

Very Low Light.....indoors

Hope this serves some purpose to someone....

 

[cheezweezl]

the focus chart shots seem a little soft overall. is this a backfocus issue? love the outdoor shots. very filmic.

 

[cheezweezl]

how are you liking that ikan monitor? sharp?

 

[DEPTH OF PHIL]

I detected some CA , some Blue and Red fringing on the Charts, the EXTERIOR stuff looks great.
The CA or soft edges can change with lenses, and make sure when you shoot the charts don't over expose them or have them curve up not even slightly, keep them perfectly flat on the wall . Over exposure can cause color smearing and slightly non-flat charts can cause soft focus on the edges . Make sure you are shooting straight on, it seems there is a slight angle with the frame, so some of the charts are slightly closer than the others.
But OVERALL the charts sure blow away the old M2.

You did a good job testing, but did you manage to shoot full frame of one chart, no additional zooming, just each lens on one chart, and then , just the camera raw.
This will really tell you lens by lens what is going on.
Cheers

 

[bmw1602]

I detected some CA , some Blue and Red fringing on the Charts, the EXTERIOR stuff looks great. The CA or soft edges can change with lenses,

Yes like I said the CA was happening on each side of the frame. It seamed to be heaviest on the lower left, and it was consistent across all the lenses which was interesting. But I still have never noticed it on any of the outside real life stuff. So who cares right?

and make sure when you shoot the charts don't over expose them or have them curve up not even slightly, keep them perfectly flat on the wall .
Over exposure can cause color smearing and slightly non-flat charts can cause soft focus on the edges . Make sure you are shooting straight on, it seems there is a slight angle with the frame, so some of the charts are slightly closer than the others.

But OVERALL the charts sure blow away the old M2.

Yeah I think they look great too,

Yeah, my bad. The charts were indeed not all perfectly flat. I was in a rush to get it all wrapped up and get out of there. In the end it was not intended to be totally scientific but more of a general test of my setup. Thanks for the tips, I doubt I will shoot more charts (boringrogar-BigGrin(DBG)) but if I do I keep these things in mind.

You did a good job testing, but did you manage to shoot full frame of one chart, no additional zooming, just each lens on one chart, and then , just the camera raw.
This will really tell you lens by lens what is going on.

Full frame of one chart? nope.... I guess I could do that another day.

But I think although not a perfect test, it's good enough to show how even the focus is across the frame. Also I'm very impressed with the low light capabilities of the m2E

 

[bmw1602]

how are you liking that ikan monitor? sharp?

SO far it's great. Not like the panosonic BTLH900's i regularly use at work but for framing and focusing it's great! Also very light, which is important.

THe hotshoe mount has to go away. To flimsy and I need the hotshoe for the mic. I think I might buy a zacutto american arm and mount it off the rails....

 

[DEPTH OF PHIL]

Cool, but keep in mind you are on to ironing out the issues, you are so close! Try that one chart , god mate i know they are boring but you will see where the CA and E2E weak spots are, then try zooming a bit, see if it gets better. Then zoom out and shoot the gg frame as well and see if it's worse or better.

I totally agree as long as you get a beautiful and emotional picture, charts are simply a way of weeding out potential limitations with the adapter and lenses. If you can frame some of it out , do so or crop it 2% -5% in post. Even the most beautiful women or cars in the world are not perfect.
Cheers

 

[bmw1602]

Are you saying that zooming the camera in or out have an effect on CA and e2e? makes sense.....

Ok.....well worth a try. I shoot the chart full frame, Then try zooming out a bit and see if there is any difference.


nice work BTW...

 

[PhantomVideo]

Does the 17-55 at 17 cover much of the FF? my tokinia 11-16 DX covers FF at 16mm just wanted to know if you are doing any extra zooming in camera to fix coverage, technically there is no FOV gain by using your 17 if it only covers DX its pretty much a 27mm, nice kit tho

 

[bmw1602]

2nd try.....

2nd try.....

Hey Phil, Thanks for pushing me to keep improving it....

Did what you said, taped the chart down (as much as I could) ......zoomed out a bit on the camera and adjusted my back focus also. It's much better now....

new camera settings
MF87
Z85 ( I was way too zoomed in)

This time I tried to frame the chart to fill the frame like you said. I got a close as close as I could to the wall as I could on the wider lenses....

much better now....

300mm

70-200 @ 200mm

70-200 @ 70mm

135mm

105mm

50mm

35mm

24mm

20mm - (maybe I have to zoom in a bit...)

17-55mm @ 17mm (DX)

17-55mm @ 35mm (DX)

17-55mm @ 55mm (DX)

 

[DEPTH OF PHIL]

WOW, now they look great. Excellent, 24mm is common for slight softness with most adapters usually and CA will show as well. I think the zoom won't be as sharp or as clean CA wise as the fixed lengths simply because it is a zoom lens. I noticed CA only appears on the very outside of some of the lenses , probably outside TV safe in most cases. Some lenses just have CA , No adapter is perfect
and you have certainly tightened up yours. How far can you zoom out without seeing the edges of the ground glass, was it still sharp when zoomed all the way out?
Great Job,
Cheers

 

[bmw1602]

WOW, now they look great. Excellent, 24mm is common for slight softness with most adapters usually and CA will show as well. I think the zoom won't be as sharp or as clean CA wise as the fixed lengths simply because it is a zoom lens. I noticed CA only appears on the very outside of some of the lenses , probably outside TV safe in most cases. Some lenses just have CA , No adapter is perfect
and you have certainly tightened up yours. How far can you zoom out without seeing the edges of the ground glass, was it still sharp when zoomed all the way out?
Great Job,
Cheers

yes, CA is only appears on outside edges...I think this is normal on these lenses. I love to throw on some PL mount arri prime on the adapter and see how different it is... :cheesy:

I do have access to some PL mount lenses here at work(were buying more)...maybe I buy the PL mount for my red rock....

I could actually zoom out more than I did to about Z75 but then on the wider lenses (20&24) it would start vignetting a bit. SO I tightened up a bit.




here is the camera totally zoomed out....still very sharp...

perhaps not totally level, now that I look at it....well always something.

 

[DEPTH OF PHIL]

Mate you are in business!! It looks fantastic.

Notice the small vignetting shadows in the corners, change the lens when zoomed out like this and see if it is certain lenses causing more or less of that. Understanding your adapter and your lens cons and pros will allow you to make quick decisions on set, and these tests will be a thing of the past. Thank God right? PL mount will be interesting, Anyway Congrats it looks amongst the best tests i've seen! Now go shoot your epic , look forward to seeing it!
Cheers

Overall, Zoom in as least as you need to to retain as much sharpness and reduce light loss.

 

[cheezweezl]

big improvement on the second set of tests. that looks like exactly what i'm getting from my ex1/m2e rig. looks like you have it dialed.

 

[PhantomVideo]

my 20 and 24 vignette as well, the rear lens coverage on both of this lenses is inadaqute, the 17-35mm AFS 2.8 is excellent, Ive used one and it doesn't vignette at all , Beautifully sharp shots

 

[bmw1602]

I just shot some test footage at a local racetrack this weekend....editing it together right now, I'll post it up when its done.

here some stills of me and the rig in action, it was 108.....freakin HOT! I was using .9 + 1.2 horizontal soft ND grad. This helps me get more detail in the darker cars while not blowing out the sky......not a cloud in sight.

Lens you see there is the awesome 70-200 f2.8, I also used a 300mm prime and a 50 for pits coverage. You can also see the small sandbag I use to get a neutral balance which is crucial fro nice pans etc.... The sand bag has a rubber coating in the middle which is perfect because it doesn't move. This way I can position it back and forth until I can almost let go of the camera and it will stay level and not fall forward or backward.

 

[DEPTH OF PHIL]

Very cool, ( not the weather )
The Z balance from Zacuto is great for center balancing the rig as well, you just mount the QR plate to it. I've never been that secure with the hot shoe mounts on top for monitoring , they seem like they could break off. So i mount it on the back for the extra counter weight on tripod shots. Look forward to some footage, did you under or over crank for fx?

Cheers

 

[bmw1602]

Yes, the hot shoe mount just has to go it's horrible....

It also acts as a sail when the (frequent) wind gusts at the track and makes the pictures shaky. I have my eye on a Zacuto american arm that mounts of the rails. All in good time....plus I need the hotshoe mount for my microphone.


Things here at work been super busy, as we just got both our REDS and I've been spending lots of time with our other optical engineer matching/calibrating lenses and setting up our 3D rigs. We have a music video we have to shoot in a week with the setup. Then hopefully a few features.

Anyways....

Since I might not be able to get to my footage for awhile, here some screen shots, been experimenting with some color "looks". Also understand that some of the softness and blur is probably motion blur.

I shot a few scenes at 60fps

 

[DEPTH OF PHIL]

Great Work, Love the foreground tire shot a lot and really dig on the grittiness of the first fence shot, the fore ground is decayed looking, super cool!

Cheers

 

[bmw1602]

yeah, I was having fun with that fence....that and Buttonwillow is a pretty boring track to shoot. It also has very limited viewing areas for shooting the action, unless you have on track/corner worker station access.

I actually didn't even shoot that much material (maybe 20mins total). It was just so freakin hot and I was also instructing students (racing) so it was a busy day.