M2 users -- ND Grad problem.

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darwinandpaine

Well-known member
My ND Grad filter works fine when I'm using the standard HVX lens (82mm?). But when I'm using my M2 and the Nikon lenses (52mm), the filter doesn't come down far enough in front of the lens to be effective. And I can't push it down and further because the rods are in the way at the bottom. Has anyone else experienced this? And does anyone have a solution?
Thanks in advance, D&P

P.S.: I did check the Redrock support forums first, and didn't find anything (they're a bit of a mess).
 
Hi Ash,

Don't have an answer for you, sorry. But out of curiousity, what do you have your HVX focus and settings on for your M2? I just got done trying to adjust it, finally settled on MF 17 with Z74. (I'm using a hard mount for the adapter with the new 72mm HD achromat.)

cheers,

JP
 
You will have to use shorter rods. Before the HVX-200 you could just push the rods back further, but the shimming of the cameramount prohibits this.

As for focus/zoom setting I use: MF17 Z76. I moved the motor down but still see its shadow at Z74. Beware that the HVX LCD crops a little in top and bottom compared to the recorded stream. The best way to get the adjustments right is to hook it up to a NLE with firewire and watch the stream live.
 
Hi Anders,

Interesting, I'm using your hard mount solution by the way. I've got my HVX hooked up to my 24' Dell using the componet out to get focus.

Are you getting edge to edge sharpness on those settings? I'm very close, but not there yet. Seems one corner is slightly off.

JP
 
The M2 is fun to play with but for me, it negates a lot of the sharpness I am looking for in HD even with the new HD glass. For mini35 I still shoot SD. I have gotten some great results with the Letus which mounts direct to the XL mount on the XL2 so you do not have to mess with the stock lens.


ash =o)
 
Sorry for the lack of clarity. I was talking about putting a 4 x 4 filter into the matte box. Shorter rods won't do because (obviously?) the matte box goes on to the rods and the filters go into the back of the matte box.

As for M2 settings, I'm generally around z75 and mf18. But there's always a plus/minus factor each time I set it up. I dropped my motor all the way down and see nothing of it at Z75. I have been able to get really good edge-to-edge sharpness, but you do have to finesse the M2 back and forth on the rods quite a bit.
 
Yeah, the tricky part for me is that I now have the achromat hard mounted to the M2, so I can't finese the achromat back and forth. Gonna have to figure out another way of getting the soft edges to go away.
 
Not to hijack this thread, (sorry man I dont know about grad filters and your mattebox) but about Jpsheets hardmounting, I would like to ask him if he has used filters to space out a desired width. My M2 is on the way and I am going to hardmount. I figure I'll find my sweet spot on and then use filters to fill in the gap and hardmount. Of course Ill break out the glass (use cheap uv's) and just use the rings to make a custom length spacer tube. Have you considered this?
 
Just out of curiousity--I did not see mention of this . . . are you folks using the new 72mm "HD" acromat or the old one (55mm). I'll have to put mine together tomorrow and see for myself . . . although my one initial "down and dirty" test when I got the new acromat was a significant improvement.

Weather here has not been conducive to taking the camera out of it's box.
 
Not to hijack this thread, (sorry man I dont know about grad filters and your mattebox) but about Jpsheets hardmounting, I would like to ask him if he has used filters to space out a desired width. My M2 is on the way and I am going to hardmount. I figure I'll find my sweet spot on and then use filters to fill in the gap and hardmount. Of course Ill break out the glass (use cheap uv's) and just use the rings to make a custom length spacer tube. Have you considered this?

Yeah, sorry to hijack the thread Darwin. Maybe we can get Jarred to start a new 35MM adapter thread.
I'm using Anders solution to hard mount the new 72mm HD achromat to the M2 adapter. There's a thread on the M2 board about it. Basically it's a 55mm tiffen polarizer with the glass broken out, couple this with a 55 to 55 male coupling ring and it all screws togther. What's ingenious about it is that the polarizer allows the achromat to rotate so you can screw the achromat right into the HVX (with step down ring of course.) Anyway, I think this solution answers your question. I haven't used any additional filters to space out the width becuase it seems the key is to get the achromat as close to the M2 as possible.

Cheers,
JP
 
Hijack away, guys. I don't mind.

dregenthal said:
Just out of curiousity--I did not see mention of this . . . are you folks using the new 72mm "HD" acromat or the old one (55mm). I'll have to put mine together tomorrow and see for myself . . . although my one initial "down and dirty" test when I got the new acromat was a significant improvement.
Click to expand...

I am using my M2 with the 72mm acromat, but that's all I've ever had. So, I can't speak about the difference.
 
I've found that shimming the adapter (despite RR's recommendation) and not the camera has worked well for me. It brought it up to the lowest position of my Matte Box. And I found the 72mm achromat to be much better and sharper than the 55mm. I've been able to push it right up to the adapter with the rubber ring on and still get a great image.

Jason
 
darwinandpaine said:
Hijack away, guys. I don't mind.
Click to expand...

Darwin,

What mattebox are you using? If the rod support bracket is in the way of your filter stage, then I would consider that a design flaw and try to return the matte box. Your filter should be able to pass completely through the filter stage specifically to allow the type of adjustment you are wanting to make. The position of the grad is determined by your focal length and framing relative to your subject. If your mattebox is preventing this, it is failing to do one of its primary functions. I often use 4x5 vertical grads to allow me the ability to put the line close to the edge of frame and with the extra length, a poorly designed rod bracket would be a real pain.

Try taking the mattebox completely off the rods and see if you can get the filter tray out past the bracket using the stage furthest from the camera. If it clears the bracket, then try mounting it as far onto the rods as possible without binding. The distance between the box and lens is how much shorter your rods must be. You will either need adjustable rods like the Cavision or Zacutos, or a different set of rods for evey different focal length lens you use. If are using a vario-focal zoom the changes length a you zoom, you will need a flexible donut between the lens and mattebox. An old mousepad and an exacto knife works well for this or you can buy precut lens donuts from filmtools.com

Hope that helps,
filmstox
 
filmstox said:
If the rod support bracket is in the way of your filter stage, then I would consider that a design flaw and try to return the matte box.
Click to expand...

I can push the filter down through the matte box, but the matte box was designed for an 82mm lens. The Nikons I'm using with the M2 are only 52mm. So, even pushing the filter down barely brings the grand into the view of the smaller lenses. It's not a design flaw in the matte box. It's a function of using the matte box in a way it was never intended. I was hoping that someone knew of 4x4 grad filters where the gradient comes down further on the actual filter, or something like that. But thanks for your thoughtful reply.
 
It sounds like 4x5 verts might help if you can get the tray for your mb, or you might want to try a hard edge grad. Can you post a screen grab of a clip that shows the problem?

-filmstox
 
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