m-audio microtrack 24/96 question

D

dog666

Member
this might be a general digital recording device question too, I'm not sure.
I am relatively new to audio recording, and I have an M-audio microtrack24/96 digital recorder. I have an audio technica AT897 shotgun microphone, and an azden sgm 1X microphone. I realize the audio technica mic uses phantom power, and it seems to work fine, and the other one works well too, and both seem to work with the M audio device. Now my question lies in when I listen back at what I recorded on my computer, the sound is hella low, and I seem to have to turn everything up all the way to hear what I have recoreded. Is this normal? Do I always have to turn it up to listen to my tracks? Does this mean I have to boost my recording volume level when I go to edit them? I realize that this digital recorded is limited in what I can do with it.... But as I am doing a big project in 2 weeks, and I now now really sketchy about using this device if my audio is gonna be unusable. Any feedback will be more than welcome. Oh, will the 27dB boost help me out to increase the volume of the recording? Will that give me any negative side effects?
 
I don't know that particular device, but my guess would be you've set it for line-in but it is receiving mic in. Also, the 897 can take a AA battery so that it doesn't need phantom power.

Just a couple of things to check.

Phil
 
no, I know for a fact we have it set for mic-in, because I thought maybe that was the case with it, but it is still low.... I have tried everything I can think of. The only other thing I can think of is a preamp, but would there be one that could fit on this thing?
 
The level metering is tricky on the thing. But, indeed you have to set the gains properly, and you may need to add the 27dB boost if levels are insufficient without it. Remember, you've got the level up/down switches on the front; the "h/m/l" switch on the side, and the 27dB boost menu setting. You may need to use all of these to set the levels right....
 
so the 27dB boost WILL amplifly my recording volume? Because that is what I need. I also ran some tests tonight and pretty much I can only hear stuff that is right in front of my mic..... there seems to be a lot of white noise too when I bring my levels up to compensate for my lack of volume...I know that can't be good. Does it even matter if the sound is low? Can I boost it in post with no problems in sound quality? I am working on AVID xpress which I am also new to as well, I just got the damn program a couple months ago but I haven't really messed with any sound, and none from this device. Will it be a major issue? I'm about to say f--- it and just plug my mics into the dvx.
 
Well, you gotta set your gains right on whatever you use. Yes, 27dB boost will raise your recording volume. So will switching the h/m/l switch, and so will the level controls on the front.

If you recorded at a low level, then bring them up in your DAW, it will always add noise. It's OK for small level changes, but gets pretty bad if your levels were really low to start with.

Setting levels for recording is a careful art; you want the level as high as possible without peaking, but you want to be sure there are no peaks. Peaks are ugly and pretty unrecoverable.

Use the meters on the microtrack. They're weird, and I'm not sure how accurate they are, but keep the peaks close to the right end (without letting 'em hit the extreme) and you should be OK. Listen to it! See how far you can push the gain before you hear distortion....
 
Thanks for the tips, but I still don't know why the levels are so low on my computer (i'm just listening to the files on winamp). I shouldn't have any trouble with distortion if I boost volume in post right? I will work on keeping my levels as close to the action as possible without clipping, then try it again.....I think part of my problem may be that I am not keeping it close enough to the peak ?
 
Probably. Boosting in post is just like adding gain to video in post... it works sometimes, but adds noise, and is never as good as recording it the right way in the first place. Take some time to test the MicroTrack and get used to its level metering!
 
Try to find an analyze function in your audio editing program. With that you can see the actual average and maximum levels on a clip. Your mic/recorder combo should be able to record at full levels and over. If it doesn't you are just not setting the levels right.

Adding gain in post is ok for small adjustments, but something like +30dB is going to push up the noise to unaceptable levels.
 
right. I've noticed when I record stuff, that the level of the device never really seems to go very high, so I am keeping my levels really low. I can't figure out a way to increase the strength of the signal coming in, so that the levels actually bounce up and down. Like with ambient sound, it doesn't even show anything on the meter. Does that mean I just have to keep my levels at the bottom and hope that when I listen to it I will hear it? It's funny, cause it sounds fine when I listen in the headphones, but then I have to crank the volume on my computer. In that case it makes it hard for me in the editing process because I would be forced to turn the gains up on the file, which I don't want to do.
 
Sounds like you have a gain staging problem.

The microtrack has 1/4" mic inputs, right? First off, make sure you have the correct cabling, since the most common use of the 1/4" is an unbalanced guitar-style cable. You should be converting your XLR's from your mics to TRS (looks like a headphone plug, not a guitar plug. A guitar plug has one black insulating ring past the tip, followed by the metal post [which is called the sleeve]; a TRS has the tip, a black ring, a silver ring, another black insulator, and then the metal sleeve).

Next, test the mic into the recorder with the loudest possible sound (if it's dialog, does the person shout, etc). Adjust the preamp control and watch your meter (I assume the LCD on the micro has a meter??) for clipping. Get it as hot as possible without letting the loudest sounds clip.

When you drag the files to your PC, open them in *something* that shows the WAVEFORM; there's probably tons of shareware audio editors for the PC (I'm a mac guy and there's several). The waveform should almost fill the space top-to-bottom. but the peaks-- the highest/lowest point of the wave -- should be points, not flat plateaus (Which indicate clipping). There are plenty of books and on-line resources that explain this visually.

You may find the LCD on the recorder isn't a totally accurate meter, or that your player isn't powerful enough, etc. Viewing the meters and eyeballing the waveform will tell you a lot about where your problem lies, but make sure you're wired up correctly!
 
the XLR from my mic to the recorder goes into my 1/8 inch jack, via a low to high impedance transformer. I have audacity which is a shareware sound program, and sound forge 4.5. Tonight I am going to make some more recordings and see if I can get some higher levels with this thing.... I noticed on previous WAVs from my other recordings that the levels weren't even getting close to the top of the waveform, the peaks were all near the bottom, obviously this must be why I can't hear much? So when I go to record next time, if I adjust the recording accordingly, I should be able to hear more? This is kinda confusing to me.
 
To answer your post question. No you cant just crank it up in post. You will end up with a lot of noise and a rather nasty sounding recording. So it is important that you get a strong signal onto the file. Depending on who you are talking to and what you are recording you should be getting an average signal between -20 dBfs and -12 dBfs on dialog. That sounds a whole lot hotter than you seem to be geting. But one can't tell from your post. What are your peaks at? You may have to be turning it up in WinAmp for a slew of reasons that have nothing to do with the files.
A silly question but on some mics that can use batteries you have to turn them on even if your running on phantom power (it's not that stupid since some you don't). Also the Micro track uses a nonstandard phantom power of 32Volts and some mics don't like that.

SK
 
dog666 said:
the XLR from my mic to the recorder goes into my 1/8 inch jack, via a low to high impedance transformer. I have audacity which is a shareware sound program, and sound forge 4.5. Tonight I am going to make some more recordings and see if I can get some higher levels with this thing.... I noticed on previous WAVs from my other recordings that the levels weren't even getting close to the top of the waveform, the peaks were all near the bottom, obviously this must be why I can't hear much? So when I go to record next time, if I adjust the recording accordingly, I should be able to hear more? This is kinda confusing to me.
Click to expand...


Also: Why are you using a low-to-high impedence converter? I don't think the MicroTrack has high impedence inputs....

It would help if you told us what mic you're using, and all your settings on the microtrack...
 
If possible, I'd give this all a try with a non-phantom (but lo-Z) mic, as well. Know anyone with a Sure 57 or 58 around (they're pretty ubiquitous and bullet-proof, and have good output).

I'd dump the impedence transformer as well, since the recorder accepts Lo-z through the 1/4" TRS jack. All you should need is the correct cable (or solder one up if you're handy with that sorta thing).

Get everything possible out of your signal chain to troubleshoot stuff like this!
 
dog666 said:
the XLR from my mic to the recorder goes into my 1/8 inch jack, via a low to high impedance transformer. I have audacity which is a shareware sound program, and sound forge 4.5. Tonight I am going to make some more recordings and see if I can get some higher levels with this thing.... I noticed on previous WAVs from my other recordings that the levels weren't even getting close to the top of the waveform, the peaks were all near the bottom, obviously this must be why I can't hear much? So when I go to record next time, if I adjust the recording accordingly, I should be able to hear more? This is kinda confusing to me.
Click to expand...

I have another question... why is it that you're going into the 1/8" input rather than using one of the two 1/4" inputs? I doubt that could be the main root of the problem, but it's worth exploring, though it may necessitate a different cable (as mentioned, might be good to switch that out anyway) - an XLR to 1/4"
 
I missed the 1/8 inch addapter part. That is probably your problem. I don't own a micro track but I do know that it's mic ins are 1/4" so you are probably pluging in to the lime in. What you need is a Female XLR to TRS 1/4" cable and run the mic in to the mic ins. I'm also pretty sure that there is no phantom power on the 1/8 connector and even if there was it wont make it through the impedance converter and since the high impedence end is no doubt unballanced if there was phantom power there you would be shorting it out.
SK
 
Noiz2 said:
I missed the 1/8 inch addapter part. That is probably your problem. I don't own a micro track but I do know that it's mic ins are 1/4" so you are probably pluging in to the lime in. What you need is a Female XLR to TRS 1/4" cable and run the mic in to the mic ins. I'm also pretty sure that there is no phantom power on the 1/8 connector and even if there was it wont make it through the impedance converter and since the high impedence end is no doubt unballanced if there was phantom power there you would be shorting it out.
SK
Click to expand...

Yeah, I missed that, too. The 1/8 on the MT is indeed a mic input, but it's stereo. And doesn't supply phantom power.
 
tell us about the adaptor cable you are using to go from the xlr mic to the 1/4" input on the microtrack.

i have a suspicion that you are experiencing phase cancellation. on the 1/4" side, is the plug trs, or just ts? (trs will have 2 black stripes around it near the tip and ts will only have 1.)

if there's only 1, then you are giving the microtrack a signal that is being made by adding a signal to a phase-reversed version of itself. this basically cancels out the signal. even if its trs, this could still be happening depending on how the adapter is wired.

you're not going into the 1/8" input are you? this would be the wrong thing to do. if that's what you're doing, you can fix the stuff you recorded by un-linking the 2 tracks in your editing program and deleting one of them. pan the remaining track to the center. ultimately you'd want to get out the soldering iron and re-wire your adaptor, or get a new one.
 
whoops- alot of new posts before i finished mine. but the answer that you're going into 1/8" confirms my suspicion.

it looks like phase-cancellation to me. (combined with the fact that you're plugging a phantom mic into a non-phantom input.)

get an xlr to 1/4" trs adapter, wired properly so that the 1/4" side is balanced.
 
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