GH3 Lumix G X Vario 12-35mm or Sigma 18-35mm w/ Metabones?

B

Benjobe

Well-known member
When I do live events I like to have my GH3 in a shoulder rig with a follow focus. Up until now I've been using the Voigtlander 25mm which has been great for pulling focus and good in low light situations. However, I'm come to the conclusion that a zoom might be better than a prime for these gigs. I'm considering these two options:

1. Lumix G X Vario 12-35mm f2.8 OIS

2. Sigma 18-35mm f1.8 w/ Metabones adapter (which makes it 12-25mm f0.95).

The Lumix has a longer zoom range and the OIS will help reduce jittery video. Cost: $1298

The Sigma/Metabones is two stops faster and has hard stops so I can accurately pull focus (just like my Voigtlander). Cost: $800 + $429 = $1229

I was leaning towards the Sigma/Metabones option because it's similar to what I currently use except with a zoom. However, I've noticed with my Voigtlander that it's easier to keep my subjects in focus if I stop down to f2 or f2.8. So if I'm always at f2.8 then I might as well get the Lumix... except for the hard stops and pulling focus issues. And maybe pulling focus with the Lumix's infinity ring won't be a big deal, I don't know I haven't tried it. And boy that Lumix OIS might help me with those walking/tracking shots that are so bouncy. Unless I go with the Sigma and just WarpStabilize in post... You see my conundrum?

Anybody have experience with these lenses? Any one have any thoughts on this dilemma?
 
for handheld I would go with the Lumix lens - I.S. will save your ass many times....the Sigma is a great looking lens but its big and heavy for handheld, has less reach and as far as I'm aware does not have hard stops - more like soft stops. The 1.8 & speed would make it a lowlight saviour but then you've got the voigtlander.......
 
Pretty sure the Sigma has hard stops. For video only work mounted to a shoulder rig, I would go for the Sigma/Speedbooster option. I have the 12-35 and its a great little lens but I find the focus ring pretty awful during video use and you wouldn't bother mounting a FF to it.
 
My feeling is that any high quality dedicated Micro 4/3 lens is going to beat the combination of SpeedBooster + APS-C/FF Lens.

If you can live without image stabilization, then I would be looking at the new Olympus Pro 12-40mm f/2.8 lens which should be out very soon.

I expect this new Olympus Pro lens will be everything the Lumix 12-35mm is ( without the OIS ) and a couple hundred dollars cheaper.

Who knows, maybe if we're lucky it's parfocal. ( yeah I'm dreaming )
 
i think the 12-35 is a great lens and pairs really well with the GH3. As stated IS alone is a big deal.
 
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TheDingo said:
My feeling is that any high quality dedicated Micro 4/3 lens is going to beat the combination of SpeedBooster + APS-C/FF Lens.
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I was wondering why exactly you would feel this way? In the examples I've seen the speed booster doesn't seem to affect
quality much. Especially when the m43 cameras are using the center of the APS-C/FF lenses.
FYI this comment is not for the sake of argument, I'm just curious.
 
TheDingo said:
My feeling is that any high quality dedicated Micro 4/3 lens is going to beat the combination of SpeedBooster + APS-C/FF Lens.
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I too am wondering why you have this 'feeling'?

Speedbooster makes a lens a stop faster and sharper. Coupled with the Sigma , which we know is an excellent performer on its own, I would say that the Sigma/SB combination is a better combo than the yet unseen Olympus unless you need Autofocus and the slightly longer range.

Optically, there is no reason for a MFT lens to be any better than an APS-C lens on a MFT camera.

OIS is nice to have but there are many amazing lenses out there (Zeiss, Cooke, Most Primes) that people use very successfully without issue. On a shoulder rig, like the OP has mentioned he will use, I don't think the lack of OIS Is much of an issue.
 
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Rent the 12-35 from LensRentals or similar outfits to see if it would even work for you in your normal routine. This is good SOP with any expensive lens purchase.


I fiddled around with a Sigma 17-50/2.8 + SpeedBooster combo the other day, and own a Lumix 12-35. While it's far from a direct comparison, there are some similarities in size & function with your proposal. Some thoughts:

- The DX lens + SB is simply much larger than the 12-35. Much larger than the Voigt 25 as well. This may or may not affect you and your shooting style, and may be more of an issue with a smaller system (BM Pocket, GX7, etc) vs. a larger system (GH3, OMD, AF100, etc)
- Understand that your DX lens will be full manual. Again, may or may not be an issue with your shooting style.
- The 12-35's IS is very effective. Again, MOMNBAIWYSS (I'm sensing a trend)
- the SB actually speeds the lens by a full stop. May or may not be important...
- I've seen no negative effects from the SB on any DX lens I've tried... however, some DX lenses don't yield full m43 sensor coverage when used with the SB. There's no real rhyme or reason to which ones do or don't.

Now, as to that MOMNBAIWYSS...
If you've been using the Voigt 25, then you're likely well-versed in working without auto features or IS and may not miss them... or, you may find that your life has been incomplete without them.
If you get a hankering for other fast large zooms, the SB opens up a number of interesting possibilities (Sigma 10-20/3.5, Tokina 11-16/2.8, Sigma 17-70/2.8-4, Sigma 50-150/2.8, etc)
 
cinebren said:
I was wondering why exactly you would feel this way?
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A few reasons...

- The SpeedBooster is "add on" optics that was never part of the original lens design. I am sure the SpeedBooster will perform well, but I doubt it will be as good as native glass that was optically designed specifically for the m4/3 format.

- In terms of lines per millimeter resolving power, m4/3 lenses are higher resolution than Full Frame optics, so again I would expect premium m4/3 glass to outperform a SpeedBooster lens combo. ( I would love to see a side by side still-photo test, where the difference in resolution would be more apparent than video )

- So far I haven't seen any optical tests performed on a SpeedBooster lens combo, but my gut feeling is that premium native m4/3 glass will have fewer optical defects. ( i.e. Chromatic abberation, Coma, Vignetting, etc... )
 
Dingo, I haven't found that to be definitively the case. SB'd lenses aren't worse, or better... just "different."

for instance...

I have a premium, highly-regarded Leica DG 25/1.4 prime. I also have a Leica Summilux-R 35/1.4 (boosted = 25/f1). At f1.4 equivalent, the image on either doesn't look better or worse, there are no apparent severe flaws in either, but there's definitely a detectable difference in the rendering each yields. Now, the user experience on each is vastly different as one is a wee svelte native electroslick plastic lens and the other is a gigantic full-frame hands-on behemoth of glass and metal, and there are times one is better than the other... but never one better than the other all the time.

In the aforementioned Lumix X 12-35 vs. Boosted Sigma 17-50 (~12-35/2), again, at ~f2.8 there are differences... but not so much that I can easily call one "better" than the other. It's nice having the extra stop and manual control on the boosted Sigma, but it can also be very nice having the IS and auto features of the Lumix.
 
To the OP, you mention you shoot events and always use a shoulder rig and FF. For events, you will find the low light performance of the SB+Sigma much better than the Lumix 12-35.<br><br>In regard to the size of tha SB+Sigma, yes it will be a bigger setup but you will find that an advantage when trying to rig a FF. You will find it very cramped if you want to mount a FF to the Lumix lens and you will have to use 360 degree lens gears due to the focus ring. I have the Lumix and haven't really found a 360 degree gear for it that I'm happy with. The Sigmas focus ring is nice and smooth with a good dampened feel to it and hard stops. i would however, get the Nikon mount Sigma and SB as this will give you aperture control on the lens where is should be. If anyone manages to easily de-click a Speedbooster, you will also get a nice smooth iris. Are you listening Metabones? De-click the iris ring on the Speedbooster to give all Nikon G lenses a cine style iris!

For run n gun shooting, being able to support the rig handle with your right hand and focus and change exposure with the other is a feature worth your rigs weight in gold. It's how a broadcast camera is designed and the most ergonomic fiddle free option.
 
vtwiz said:
If anyone manages to easily de-click a Speedbooster, you will also get a nice smooth iris. Are you listening Metabones? De-click the iris ring on the Speedbooster to give all Nikon G lenses a cine style iris!
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Sounds like I have a how-to video to produce. It'll be short, though... it's only 7 screws and keeping track of all the little bits.
 
I asked Metabones when they released the Nikon version of the speesbooster if they would do a declicked version and they didnt have any plans to back then. Seems like enough people have asked because i got word from them that they have created a DeClicked Nikon Speedbooster. Can't see it on their website yet but hopefully it is released soon.
 
vtwiz said:
I asked Metabones when they released the Nikon version of the speesbooster if they would do a declicked version and they didnt have any plans to back then. Seems like enough people have asked because i got word from them that they have created a DeClicked Nikon Speedbooster. Can't see it on their website yet but hopefully it is released soon.
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Damn. I was just about to order one tonight. Now you've got me wanting to wait.
 
cinebren said:
Damn. I was just about to order one tonight. Now you've got me wanting to wait.
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Apparently if you order one now it will be declicked!

I would suggest double checking with Metabones though.

Also, they will 'apparently' declick any speed boosters free of charge as long as you pay $25 for return postage.
 
mcbob said:
If you've been using the Voigt 25, then you're likely well-versed in working without auto features or IS and may not miss them... or, you may find that your life has been incomplete without them.
If you get a hankering for other fast large zooms, the SB opens up a number of interesting possibilities (Sigma 10-20/3.5, Tokina 11-16/2.8, Sigma 17-70/2.8-4, Sigma 50-150/2.8, etc)
Click to expand...

That's a good point. I'm comfortable with my Voigtlander which has no OIS. Really, the impetus for this purchase is the ability to zoom. Of course it'd be nice to have OIS, but for me pulling accurate focus with my FF is more important.

vtwiz said:
To the OP, you mention you shoot events and always use a shoulder rig and FF. For events, you will find the low light performance of the SB+Sigma much better than the Lumix 12-35.<br><br>In regard to the size of tha SB+Sigma, yes it will be a bigger setup but you will find that an advantage when trying to rig a FF. You will find it very cramped if you want to mount a FF to the Lumix lens and you will have to use 360 degree lens gears due to the focus ring. I have the Lumix and haven't really found a 360 degree gear for it that I'm happy with. The Sigmas focus ring is nice and smooth with a good dampened feel to it and hard stops. i would however, get the Nikon mount Sigma and SB as this will give you aperture control on the lens where is should be. If anyone manages to easily de-click a Speedbooster, you will also get a nice smooth iris.
Click to expand...

That's one of the problems I have with the M43 lenses, they're too small for my FF. The focus rings are so close to the camera that the FF gear is rubbing up against the camera body. The Voigtlander just barely escapes this problem. It'd be nice to have more wiggle room with a larger, longer lens. Of course, it will make my shoulder rig more front heavy, but I can deal with that.

Does anybody know if the Metabones SB affects the focal plane of the lens? What I mean is that if I have the Sigma 18-35mm wide open at f1.8 then will the depth of field be the same regardless of whether or not I'm using the Metabones SB? I suspect so, but I thought I would ask.

I've been stopping down my 25mm Voigt. to f2.8 so that my DOF will be about 2' (average dist. to subject being 7'). In order to get this same DOF with the 35mm end of the Sigma I'd have to have it stopped down to f5.6, unless the Metabones SB affects the DOF some how.
 
Technically the Speedbooster isn't changing the lens' DOF... it is simply showing you more of the lens' FOV.

Functionally, this means that you have to get closer to your subject to get the same framing, or use a longer lens. And this will decrease your DOF for the same subject composition.

What's also confusing for many people about the whole Speedbooster thing is that everyone says "It makes your lens one stop faster! Your f2.8 lens is now an f2!". Which isn't technically correct, but people hear it and naturally imagine a one-stop difference in DOF.

I think it's more accurate to think of the SB as changing the camera rather than changing the lens. So for the GH3, think of it as making it into a 1.4x crop camera with one stop better ISO performance.
 
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