Lower Thirds

A

AdobeCS

Active member
Not sure where to post this so I'll just put it here. Are there any official "rules" to doing lower thirds? I notice that a lot of the times it'll always be on the lower left side only for example.
I always just put it opposite of where the person I'm interviewing is to kind of "balance" the person out though.
 
Only rule is to keep it within Title Safe, and 4x3 centre cut safe if you want to be extra cautious.
 
Batutta said:
Only rule is to keep it within Title Safe, and 4x3 centre cut safe if you want to be extra cautious.
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Agreed.
Currently, if you plan for it to be broadcast, tell the camera operator and editor to protect for "4x3 center extraction." As time goes on, this will become less important.

As to where to position your subject, that is entirely a creative decision. As you've seen, some directors position the subject dead center, some on the "other" side of the frame (i.e. looking off the edge of frame). Some cut the subject's face (either in half vertically or horizontally by the top third. Interesting creative calls, with sometimes great results. (Sometimes it just looks creatively sophomoric.)
 
Batutta said:
Only rule is to keep it within Title Safe, and 4x3 centre cut safe if you want to be extra cautious.
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If you want to be extra cautious. Because there are people still using 20 year old 4:3 SD TVs out there.

OTOH, people like me don't worry about the 4:3 SD TV crowd; I'm not being extra cautious since a few years ago. Now I'm only worrying about 16:9, and I'm really curious why we still have the concepts of "action safe" and "title safe" in the digital era. But my Panny plasma absolutely does overscan -- it cuts the edges off of most stuff, even random stuff from DVD players. The only way to defeat overscan on this TV is to use the THX picture mode. I use this with the Blu-ray player, therefore can't use it with OTA TV broadcasts (because broadcast needs a different set of parameters than the Blu-ray player). Only with the THX picture mode do you get the entire frame. Why? Doesn't make a lick of sense to me; just another holdover from analog days like interlacing I guess. But I figure if my TV does this, probably most others do too.

So... back to putting titles in the title safe areas. :shocked: Just sayin' that Batutta is right as usual.
 
Bruce Watson said:
If you want to be extra cautious. Because there are people still using 20 year old 4:3 SD TVs out there.

OTOH, people like me don't worry about the 4:3 SD TV crowd; I'm not being extra cautious since a few years ago. Now I'm only worrying about 16:9, and I'm really curious why we still have the concepts of "action safe" and "title safe" in the digital era. But my Panny plasma absolutely does overscan -- it cuts the edges off of most stuff, even random stuff from DVD players. The only way to defeat overscan on this TV is to use the THX picture mode. I use this with the Blu-ray player, therefore can't use it with OTA TV broadcasts (because broadcast needs a different set of parameters than the Blu-ray player). Only with the THX picture mode do you get the entire frame. Why? Doesn't make a lick of sense to me; just another holdover from analog days like interlacing I guess. But I figure if my TV does this, probably most others do too.

So... back to putting titles in the title safe areas. :shocked: Just sayin' that Batutta is right as usual.
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It's dumb, but I've had a couple trailers bounce back from QC for not having the titles in the 4x3 title safe.
 
David Jimerson said:
Really? All my Panny plasmas (the best TVs for movie-watching, hands-down) just need to be set to Full mode, and all is well.
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Really? Interesting. This is an old TC-P50V10. When I rotate through the picture modes (menu...picture...picture mode), there's a definite and visible change between THX mode and the other five modes. Five show the exact same thing, then THX mode takes a definite "step back" and shows the stuff the others are cutting off. As an example, Standard Mode puts a local news channel's logo bug very near the lower right corner, vs. THX which gives it some "breathing room". I'm thinking it's like 2-3% trim, but I'm not sure how to accurately measure it.

This is with Format set to Full, which is of course a different setting.

Just for fun, why don't you give that a try for me? Format to full, then do menu...picture...picture mode, and rotate through the picture modes and see what you get. Not that we can change anything, but it's interesting.

And the implication for action/title safe modes is there. I understand why they did this with analog broadcasting; I just can't figure out the reason why digital TVs overscan anything, other than "we've always done it this way" (even when we haven't).

And yes, plasmas have just outstanding picture quality; they really shine with a source like blu-ray. I'm hoping OLEDs will be able to equal plasma by the time I need a new one. Time will tell.
 
Actually, I got it wrong; the menu setting is "HD Size," and the setting is Size 2 for the full picture to be shown. This is under Aspect Adjustments. I have a couple of different models and both have it.

It's not just plasma which is good (though it is; it's far less digital-looking); it's Panasonic plasma, with those blacks and those gorgeous colors.
 
I haven't protected for 4x3 in a few years, although I do usually keep a persons head at the edge of the 4x3 in interviews, because that's where it looks right in the frame, regardless of it being 16x9 or not.

Re: Overscan. I have a 92" rear projection set(the last rear proj model made by Mistubishi) and overscan is definitely an issue with it. It's actually slightly off center, too. But that's only noticeable playing video games. Actually cuts off text on the left side and bottom of my screen.
 
Run&Gun said:
Re: Overscan. I have a 92" rear projection set(the last rear proj model made by Mistubishi) and overscan is definitely an issue with it. It's actually slightly off center, too. But that's only noticeable playing video games. Actually cuts off text on the left side and bottom of my screen.
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I had a Mitsubishi rear-projection TV which did the same thing. Fortunately, I had an excellent DVD player which let me make the picture a little bit smaller and move it to the side in order to show the whole image. Didn't help with regular TV watching, though.
 
David Jimerson said:
Actually, I got it wrong; the menu setting is "HD Size," and the setting is Size 2 for the full picture to be shown. This is under Aspect Adjustments. I have a couple of different models and both have it.
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Holy cats! I've always wondered why it did that, now I can see it's just a dumb old factory default. I should have fixed that seven years ago when I was setting it up. Don't know how I missed it, but clearly I did.

Thanks for that Mr. Jimerson. You da man.

EDIT: I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that my situation just reiterates the problem of overscan. Even modern TVs that don't need to do it have a setting for it, and factory default will probably almost always be for overscan to be used. Because "we've always done it that way". The habit of covering up the flaws of analog broadcasting is deeply ingrained, so much so that we keep up the habit even when the underlying problem has long been fixed. Sigh...
 
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Bruce Watson said:
Holy cats! I've always wondered why it did that, now I can see it's just a dumb old factory default. I should have fixed that seven years ago when I was setting it up. Don't know how I missed it, but clearly I did.

Thanks for that Mr. Jimerson. You da man.
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:thumbsup:
 
Thanks for the replies everyone! I definitely do keep the text in the "title safe" area.

Another question I had is when is it okay to look at the camera? Or should you just never be looking at the camera? I would think that doing vlogs for example you should be looking at the camera. But what about an interview? Is it okay only in some scenarios? I always tend to have shots of the person introducing themselves and describing what they do, as well as answer some questions. But I never show the person asking the question. I've always been framing it so the interviewee is looking slightly off camera/next to the camera.
 
AdobeCS said:
Another question I had is when is it okay to look at the camera?
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A lot of it is preference, but in general it's a question of whether the person on camera is making a direct connection to the viewer. In a drama, it's used when you want to break the fourth wall and for interviews it's a question of whether you're filming a conversation between the subject and someone off camera or if the subject is speaking directly to the viewer.
 
AdobeCS said:
Another question I had is when is it okay to look at the camera? Or should you just never be looking at the camera? I would think that doing vlogs for example you should be looking at the camera. But what about an interview? Is it okay only in some scenarios? I always tend to have shots of the person introducing themselves and describing what they do, as well as answer some questions. But I never show the person asking the question. I've always been framing it so the interviewee is looking slightly off camera/next to the camera.
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My rule of thumb is: If the interviewer's presence is explicit or implied in the scene -- that is, if you can look at the shot and tell where the questions are coming from, either visually or by voice -- then the subject's eye contact should be with the interviewer and not the audience. But if the questions are asked from completely off camera or if they are edited out so only the subject's point of view remains, it seems more appropriate to have them looking straight into the camera lens (i.e. making their eye contact with the audience, not the crew).

It makes me most uncomfortable when the subject appears to be intentionally speaking to someone beside or behind the camera, not looking straight into the lens, and yet there is no context for who that questioner is or why they're standing there off camera.

I generally use the "on camera interviewer" approach when covering or describing events or factual occurences, and prefer the "subject speaks to the audience" point of view when the focus is more on the person and their feelings rather than documenting specific history.

- Greg
 
I'd like to take this time to ask what people think about flat design's place in the world of TV graphics today.
 
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