Low-light Scene: Suggestions Please

oscar-jaylen

oscar-jaylen

Member
Hi there, I recently shot a scene for an eLearning project proposal. The situation is at a bar and the eLesson here is on how to check IDs, i.e. what to look for. Anyway, can you take a look at this and advise me on how to improve my camera settings for future low-light scenes?

Here's the video:
http://chaotime.com/download/sampleVideo4-1.wmv

Thanks in advance!
 
It's not about camera settings it's about using lights. It appears you used either avaiable lighting or simply not enough. No camera settings are going to make it happen anymore than the exposure will allow for.
 
Yeah, boost your light levels a bit more. Though in all honesty, it did not look that underexposed to me. However, I did notice that your eyeline was off on a couple of shots.
 
Thank you. What I wanted to do was get the dark, bar-like atmosphere. The picture could be better, I suppose, but all I had was available light. My eyeline was off, Rosestar? Nooooo! LOL you found me out! In case no one else notices, both "actors" in this scene are me and MAN was it difficult! I couldn't tell where I was supposed to look during the shots so I tried to cover it up as best as I could with editing. Hopefully it's not that obvious.
 
You can still do a dark bar scene, but have lights... The amazing thing that most non film people never know is: everything is planned on a set... if its so dark they cant see a face, it wasnt an accident... so dont be affraid to get a nice fill light.. a soft box maybe... and it doesnt have to be on the subjects, maybe pointed at the bar, or the wall... just to shed a bit of light on the people..

as for the audio, im sorry, if you didnt want opinions on that. It was good, but it was hard to hear the guys talking, especialy with the music so much louder... so try and get a boom on top of them, or even a lav on either subject... or bring down the music... also, the pop of the beer or whatever, was a little loud... doesnt sound too realistic because its so much louder then everything else...

but looks good... the scene is done very well...
good luck
 
oscar-jaylen said:
Thank you. What I wanted to do was get the dark, bar-like atmosphere. The picture could be better, I suppose, but all I had was available light. My eyeline was off, Rosestar? Nooooo! LOL you found me out! In case no one else notices, both "actors" in this scene are me and MAN was it difficult! I couldn't tell where I was supposed to look during the shots so I tried to cover it up as best as I could with editing. Hopefully it's not that obvious.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I knew the same actor played both parts, It's cool it was you. Eyelines are a pain in the ass. Did you try and mirror the shot? It will still look a little "off", but is not usually as blatant as the wrong eyeline (unless the background gives you away). Good job on th split screens, a jiggled tripod can reek havoc...
 
mikey_b:
Thanks for the tips on lighting. I'll have a professional manage the lights when we do this for real. Thank you for also mentioning the audio. Like lighting, we'll definitely have a shotgun, if not a boom, during the real shoot.

Rosestar:
Do you mean that I should try using a mirror when acting out 2 roles? That's a great idea! I'll have one propped up the next time around. Thank you!

... and the lessons continue.
 
No. Mirroring is fliping the image in a NLE like a mirror image. It is a simple basic effect. I had to do it for an editing gig I did for a guy that FUed his eyelines really bad when shooting. I could do this because he had shot one side of the conversation against a neutral background. It is an effect of last resort and is not 100% seamless (it's a mirror image for gosh sake) but it is not as jarring as the mismatched eyelines. Just don't dwell on the mirrored shot for too long.

If you are going to shoot this again, just keep track of which direction each character is looking and make sure the other character matches.
 
I recently shot a bar scene for a feature I was DP for. There was no way I was going to use available lighting as it was way to dark. I set up a 650w omni on a c-stand, diffused it, then silked it. It couldn't be more than 3 feet away from their faces, but oh man did it look good. All I used is one light, and I knew the rest of the bar would look fine with the available light, because I didn't want bright light in the background. Anyways, it takes a lot of practice. It's fun setting up lights and seeing what kind of looks you can get.
 
It's not an eyeline issue. he just broke the axis that's all. From my understanding EYELINE refers to where the actor is looking to make it appear as if he's looking at the person he's having a conversation with in relation to the camera. In this case he just clearly crossed the axis and reversed screen direction. in shot one the char. in the white T is looking camera right to camera left and left to right in shot two.

Somebody let me know if I'm mistaken in regards to the use of the term EYELINE.

Thanks.
 
That's right. He crossed the line. We've alway refered to it as eyeline in static conversations. It changes the screen direction of the "look", i.e., the eyes. It is also easier to explain to an actor, than having to explain the 180 deg. Rule. ("What line? I don't see any line!")
 
Oscar, I'll try to get a grab up soon. The project isn't on my comp, so I have to ask my friend to take a grab from it and send it to me. It'll be up in not time hopefully.
 
mastermind:
Are we NOT supposed to break this axis? Just curious because if breaking the axis confuses viewers, it's something to keep in mind when selecting shots. Also, if a director intentionally wants to break the axis, what would he be trying to accomplish? I mean, would he be trying to set up the scene for something else to come? Or is he changing mood?

Justin:
Looking forward to seeing the grab. Thanks!
 
I guess its just a general rule in filmmaking but i wouldn't say you're not supposed to break this rule because that's based on your creative choices. To answer your other question it can be purposely done to confuse the audience or maybe in a fight scene to make it look more wild or whatever. YOU CAN DEFINATELY DO IT. Just be careful how or rather WHY you do it.

But in essence crossing the axis pretty much changes the screen direction of the subject. Visualize for example a fight scene in Gladiator or troy. the Red army is rushing on their horses towards the Blue army. On screen you see red army going from left to right and the blue army going from right to left. If the director cuts to a closeup of a horses head galloping from left to right but you don't see the "red uniform" you still know that horse belongs to the red army because of screen direction.

The same applies to 2 characters in a conversation. Visualize 2 people face to face and an imaginary line going from the tip of one's nose to the tip of the other. You first start shooting on one side of that line. If you go on the opposite side of the inititial shot it will seem as if the 2 characters swithched places. This ofcourse does not apply to wide shots because the audience has points of reference (the background in essence.) if for whatever reason you want to go on the other side of the axis, lets say to show another element of the scene, on option is to cut to a wide shot on the other side or move the camera during the shot to the other side. It's just so that the audience has a point of reference.

I hope this helps. I'm not too good an instructor so it's something i know but am not sure I described well. I know this has come up a few times on the board so just check searcch the boards for a better explanation.

In regards to the "eyeline" thing. When on set an actor will ask the camera op. or director "how's my eyeline" this has nothing to do with the 180deg. rule. It's just that when you change camera angles on the same side of the axis even, although the talent is looking at the character right infront of him, it appears on screen as if they'r are looking somewhere else, so you cheat their "eyeline" (direction the eyes are looking) to maintain continuity. That's atleast my understanding. Or maybe just the way us Canadians speak ;)
 
The "eyeline" is interesting. I had a role in a commercial once where the DP asked me to NOT look at the actor in front of me when I spoke my line but, instead, just to the left of him. The camera was positioned just to the right of the other actor (his right side), whom I was face to face with. As an actor, it was quite unnatural to deliver my line out into space but as long as it works for the shot.

Thanks for the info on breaking the "axis", mastermind. Your explanation makes sense.
 
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