Losing the Plot - summer shoot

H

Hal-Kubrick

Member
Hi guys, my first post after much browsing.

I have co-written a script with a friend of mine, one that we are really proud of. We've always put off the idea of shooting a feature but with the confidence in the script and the few locations it would take, we've both decided to shoot and edit during the months of July-September.

So any advice you have please feel free to drop it here or private message me. I just wan't a few people I can chat to and bounce ideas off.

Also the film school I'm attending let the students borrow cameras over the summer, the best they're allowing is the PD170. Is this good enough to shoot a no-budget comedy or should I seek something better. I've seen some really good footage with it but on the board here when I searched PD170 the threads were often disparaging.

30 day shoot
I've now got my hands on a Sony HD camera
No budget besides catering for actors

Thanks guys and I'll be posting here with any further progress made.

Bring on the summer!
 
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Crew and Cast.

Crew and Cast.

Crew and cast will be hired off Mandy.com/shooting people.org/Word of mouth

D.O.P/Cameraman
Soundman
Boom Operator

If there are any UK based DoP's situated in the North West of England drop me a line.
 
Bring it on!! Congrats on writing a feature, that in itself is a huge achievement - and if you have a good script, it makes making the film a slightly easier affair!

Good luck with your casting process and I look forward to hearing more.
 
cheers guys,

So a PD170 is adequate to shoot a feature? I mean, I'm in the process of trying to get better but anyone know where I can see really good footage of this camera? Like I said all I've heard about it on here is people selling it and other people advising to opt for another camera.

Thanks.
 
It's sort of a difficult question to answer. what are you going for?

I mean some people have shot short films with camera phones and they'd come out amazing. Some people have shot with HD cameras and the films have come out terrible. It's not always about what you shoot with.

If you're asking for something broadcast quality, well where are you showing it? If it's for the net, SD is fine. If you want it on theaters, SD isn't so great on big screen, and you should prob go for an HD camera if you can. I also heard the PD170 isn't as good as the XL1 or DVX100, but my sources may be wrong.
 
+ 1 for Jon Starr, with really low budget features, camera has little to do with the outcome. If you have good compositions, good camera moves, etc. then it will look pretty good. But if your frames are poorly composed and poorly lit, it will look bad no matter what. I'd rather watch a good film made on a PD150 than some film on an HVX with a really bad story and execution (So many of these)

From what I have read, the PD150 sounds like something not quite as good as the DVX. It doesn't have 24p either, which is a big thing for a lot filmmakers. It's not essential, but it does help in getting that "Film look". (Along with lighting, composition, etc. etc.)

If you can't get your hands on an HVX, or a DVX, or an XL2, or something like that, then there is nothing wrong with using this camera. I've seen people make awesome stuff out of just about any camera. Light well, and you will have a good look.

Putting an adaptor on this baby would help some, giving you ability to play more with depth of field etc.If you can get your hands on one.

Otherwise, use this camera. For a first feature it doesn't really matter, it's going to be a massive learning experience and I'm sure you'll get something really cool happening.
 
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kudos for feedback guys.

kudos for feedback guys.

Cheers for your insight,

I suppose I'm after a kick ass looking first feature, something that looks impressive to watch and like any other low budget filmmaker, you want it to look like it cost more than it did.

More info:

Possibly Shooting HD it's not confirmed yet. 24fps, the thing I'm lacking on the most knowledge wise is lighting but I'm going to swat up on that over this month and next before casting starts.

Also with hiring a D.o.P they will obviously have a good sense on lighting etc.

In simplest terms I want something that looks good. I don't want it to look like film as such but I do have in mind to send it to festivals so 24Fps would be the best option right?
 
Hey guys,

The whole 'not knowing what camera' is really bothering me, visually because it's a comedy It doesn't have to look amazing but I'd like to have these things:

HD
Widescreen
24fps

Anywhere I can see footage that fits that bill or anyone care to jot a list down of the digital prosumer cameras that can do the above?
 
24p isnt the only factor involved in getting a film look but it is one thing that helps. If you're getting a D.P for this then there's a chance they'll have their own camera that will be good.

Lots of users at these boards have been using the HVX for their features. Some with 35mm adaptors.

If you manage to get your hands on a DVX100 or an XL2 or something that's not HD I wouldn't rule it out though.
 
Cheers Chris,

I am hiring a D.P for this but I'm worried if I rely on them for all the equipment they will want to be paid a lot (rightly so of course but I can't afford it.)

I'm not sure if you've heard of the film 'box elder' but it's a low budget comedy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nQtLUo0OkU

Doesn't look that great visually but looks funny from that trailer.

If I could get my hands on a HVX with a 35mm adapter that would be a dream but I can't afford to rent and it would mean me looking everywhere and hiring the D.P just because he had that on his equipment list.

Going to search for HVX with adapter footage now. What other cams work great with the 35mm adapter?
 
Thanks for the link!

You'll find some great stuff with the HVX + adaptor. I wouldn't worry about relying on the DP for their gear - keep in mind most D.Ps on this level of production have their own cams, usually something like a DVX,HVX,XL2, etc. and will want to use it, as it is what they will be most comfortable with using. You'll find there will be D.P's out there like anyone else wanting to build up a demo reel, working for cheaper rates/free etc.

As I mentioned in the other post I wouldn't rule out SD, you might find an amazing DP who has a DVX100 or an XL2 (possibly with an adaptor) and can really work the camera to get an impressive result.

See what kind of responses you get D.P wise first. It's always good to bring on the D.P nice and early and talk over the film, gear, and all that sort of thing.
 
Cheers Chris,

I'm still tweaking things in the first draft, I have plenty of time because we plan on a 30 day shoot starting July 1st.

So you think I should get the crew organised straight away and then do the casting? Also do you think I should be really up front with the fact I won't be able to pay them a lot? I mean if I say they will have to work for free for thirty days that might scare them off and I won't get any applicants right?
 
Casting is one of the most important parts of filmmaking so do it pretty soon. It gives you a chance to make sure you're picking the right people, and to get to know them a little bit before you shoot in July.

Before you cast it would pay to have the key members of your crew on board, D.P, etc. Some of the smaller roles you can do a little later but get the majority of it done sooner than later.

30 days working for free sounds like it would be hard to do. Keep in mind most upcoming actors work day jobs, go to auditions at night, try and get small roles and build up from there, etc. Of course not all your actors will be needed for 30 days which brings me to the next point - have an idea of the schedule before you cast. The more details you know about your production beforehand, the easier casting will be for you.

As for being upfront - absolutely. Tell your actors every detail about this because it could easily cause a stir mid way through production. Be truthful to them, they are the soul of your film.

There definitely are actors out there doing no budget projects trying to get experience and a reel etc. But this is usually for short films, quick shoots, etc.

Asking actors to work for free for 30 days is probably impossible unless they are all homeless and don't mind staying that way. A few days, sure. That's been done many times. But 30 days sounds like too much to ask for free. Even if someone out there would do it, I would feel really bad about that unless I was sure this was the project that was going to break through to sundance and cause a stir.

Maybe someone who has shot a feature can chime in here.
 
Well I'm yet to do scheduling, 30 days just sounds like a good number. However if it was to put people off working for free I would definitely change it, tbh when the time comes to do the scheduling and locations I'm going to work out the quickest time I can shoot this film in.

See the script isn't 100% finished so I feel bad approaching crew and cast. I totally understand what you mean when you say 'Even if someone out there would do it, I would feel really bad about that...' but in my case it really is beg steal and borrow. I want to get this done on a no budget. However when it all comes down to it, I will HAVE to pay main cast and crew but I'm fine with that.

Also Chris, would you be willing to read my script when it is 100% complete? No worries if you're not the script reading type but you seem to be the only one who's shown an interest on here so would be cool to get your feedback.
 
Cool. Before you do anything, finish your script. You can rewrite it before the shoot but don't hand them a draft. You could start talking to D.P's about your story but they'll probably want to see a script before they agree on anything.

I would try and get some money to pay your actors, at least your main cast. And work on your script - because any actors working for cheap or free want to see a good script, something they can work hard on and know it's not going to be going to waste.

You definitely don't want to rush your shoot. A film like Clerks which is mainly one location and talking heads, still took about 30 days to shoot if I remember correctly. And even that is tight. Even if you could do it in 20 days (don't do this lol), I don't know any actors who can just walk out of their day jobs and work for me straight for 30 days for no pay. The kind of people you will be hiring will all have day jobs or classes, or something. They'll be going to auditions at night and on weekends, and trying to score jobs here and there, hoping that after doing lots of 1-2 day TV spots and short films they'll get to build their reels and get into a feature with a budget (even on the low budget end, but not no budget). Unless you manage to find some students with college vacations, and have time off, or whatever.

As for reading the script, sure. I'm not the most qualified guy ever, but the last 12 months I have been getting into screenwriting in a big way, so I'd be happy to check it out. I do suggest you make a topic here when the time comes though so the more experienced writers can check it out, as well. There are some good readers here who can give you excellent feedback. Oh, and readers like this guy: http://alligatorsinahelicopter.blogspot.com/ have been mentioned around here a few times as being good.
 
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Checking in and a Scheduling Question

Checking in and a Scheduling Question

Hi Guys,

Been busy approaching crew and cast and hopefully with the ads I've been putting out on various sites I should get some hefty responses.

My problem atm is I'm a 'no budget' meaning I'm trying to get the most talented DP I can get with the best equipment for free!! Mission Impossible??

Anyway the scheduling we are thinking of doing is 5 weeks with shooting 4 days a week. Mon, Tues, Thurs and Fri each week. Does that sound stupid and naive to anyone? It's just the actors and some crew we've spoke to also work and so automatically there goes filming in one block.

Also if anyone wants to, please drop me a line with any advice you have, it would be greatly appreciated. I'm jumping in July 1st for 5 weeks.
 
Okay, first of all, you seem concerned about making this your best film ever. Now yes, you want to do the best job you can, but let's face it. From the sounds of it you're not super experienced, your trying to not pay your cast and crew, and you're trying to speed things up. I'm not saying to not do it, but don't expect to come out with the greatest film in the world. Now I've heard before that your first two feature will never be that great, but you use them to get funding for your third. I don't completely agree with this as I know this group of filmmakers here in Montreal that did an amazing first feature film. But they are experienced with a lot of background. So don't have any huge expectations for your first feature. Just do the best you can.

Now, I've filmed a web series, 80 minutes long, all in one shot. We didn't pay cast or crew. What did we learn? Firstly, we never had a full crew, and sometimes the vital positions wouldn't even be filled (had three DPs and had to DP one shoot myself with my partner directing). Not to mention we never had a proper sound guy, one of the producers had to step in and do that.

As for cast. Well it was tough, but we got the word out there. I mean I haven't gotten to the point where I can pay actors yet (I'm a student struggling top pay tuition for crying out loud), but in my experience, when it comes to no pay (which means non unionized actors), 90% of the people you get will be terrible, and about 9% will be okay, and 1% will be pretty good. We had about 40 people show up, which was good for us. We found the people, although none of them had any training in film all too much.

So now we have a slightly inexperienced crew, with an inexperienced cast, and this caused a lot of problems. Needless to say you'll never have a shoot without problems, but it was tough.

We shot over a perdiod of 13 days (with one reshoot), and man... that was a terrible idea! I got the idea to shoot like that in "Digital filmmaking 101" the book, where they guy said you can shoot a feature in 8 days if you shoot every day and night... however the guy is obviously inexperienced, because there's what my team likes to call a cut off time. After, oh say, 12 hours or so of shooting, everyone's brains just shut down for the day, and what would take an hour, now takes 2, and no ones head, including my own, is in the game. And these were 14-16 hour days just to get everything done.

What you need to do is for the feature is when the script is done (of coruse you can change it with rehearsals and on set), but when it's done, work out a production board (I would suggest the book I mentioned http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Filmmaking-101-Essential-Producing/dp/0941188337). Use this production board to figure out your schedule and determine how many pages you'll get done in a day. Look at it this way, hollywood shoots about 2-3 pages of script a day, indy features shoot about 5-6 pages a day. I shot 8 pages a day, and the guy in the book shot 11 pages a day. I would never suggest shooting any more than 6 pages a day after my experience. (This changes with what your shooting as well. Action/stunts/etc, for example, will take much longer than a conversation between two people in a small room)

30 days sounds... reasonable for an indy feature. I can't say for certain. It would probably be about 4 pages a day comparing to my shoot (but you need to work out a prod board to do this, depending on the length of your script, actors, etc.). But again, refer to the book.

Now, will actors work for free for 30 days? Yikes, sounds difficult. Unless you offer deferral pay at the least, you'll have a tough time IMO. For 14 days, with inexperienced actors looking to get more portfolio work, and with their jobs, we had trouble just doing the 14 days (and occasional rehearsals, which they complained about taking up their time), all on the weekends.

I would really look into at least deferral pay (promise of pay if you get paid which is put in contract form). Now you probably won't get paid, and most people know this, but they'll be more willing with the hope of getting paid.
 
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Thanks Jon much appreciated.

Thanks Jon much appreciated.

Some good tips there thanks.

Well the screenplay is 75 pages and so we think we can do it in just over 20 days.

We will offer deferral of payment if the right cast come along but the few we've spoken to are willing to work for free. It's in the summer and it's a feature, an actor would love that in their portfolio.

You're right I am trying to make the best feature I can, I just want the visuals to be right that's why I'm getting uptight on the DP front. I believe in the script and I'm confident about my ability as a director, it's the visuals and the more technical side I'm worried about.

I guess I want a talented passionate cinematographer that wants their name on a good film but to do it they have to work for free (with catering and expenses included)

I still think I can do it when they read the script.

Any advice would be great, to the latest time saver to a book or website recommendation. Thanks again Jon and Chris
 
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