Looking forward to this lens (Sony 18-104 OSS F4)...

Just received my order from Sony; and, trying to decide if I should send it back. I'm getting some VERY nice images from this lens, great resolution. It's just the horrendously bad pincushion that's so objectionable. I corrects out in After FX. The rest of the lens is so nice, I think I'll keep it.
 
I just got it and tried it out on my cameras. As noted, pillow distortion on the FS700. However, straight as straight can be on my VG20.
I guess the VG20 is considered a still camera???? Is it the higher MP count on the VG20 (16 megapixel vs. 8 megapixel for the FS700)
that allows them to do this on the VG20 and not the FS700?? Questions, questions. I will say, if they do fix it for the FS700, I would
guess it would be a VERY popular lens. Nice images, steadyshot (just standard, not active, but it works quite well, even at 105mm),
nice autofocus, also the 'tap screen where you want to focus' works great with this lens. Good range, pretty decent DOF with F4,
really just all around nice as can be but for that stupid distortion. I mean, I guess I can use it on my VG20, but I REALLY want
to use it on my FS700! It's got a little more range that that Fuji and only a stop slower! It has so much potential, but it is ruined
for the FS700 by the distortion. Guess I'll give Sony a call and see what they say.....if it sounds like they will be coming out with a fix,
I will probably keep it and use it on my VG20 until the fix comes out. If they cannot fix it or are not interested in fixing it for the
FS700, I will be sending it back.
 
alaskacameradude said:
I just got it and tried it out on my cameras. As noted, pillow distortion on the FS700. However, straight as straight can be on my VG20.
I guess the VG20 is considered a still camera???? Is it the higher MP count on the VG20 (16 megapixel vs. 8 megapixel for the FS700)
that allows them to do this on the VG20 and not the FS700?? Questions, questions. I will say, if they do fix it for the FS700, I would
guess it would be a VERY popular lens. Nice images, steadyshot (just standard, not active, but it works quite well, even at 105mm),
nice autofocus, also the 'tap screen where you want to focus' works great with this lens. Good range, pretty decent DOF with F4,
really just all around nice as can be but for that stupid distortion. I mean, I guess I can use it on my VG20, but I REALLY want
to use it on my FS700! It's got a little more range that that Fuji and only a stop slower! It has so much potential, but it is ruined
for the FS700 by the distortion. Guess I'll give Sony a call and see what they say.....if it sounds like they will be coming out with a fix,
I will probably keep it and use it on my VG20 until the fix comes out. If they cannot fix it or are not interested in fixing it for the
FS700, I will be sending it back.
Click to expand...

The VG20 is a compatible camera http://www.sony.co.uk/product/ddl-zoom-lenses/sel-p18105g/compatible-products#tab the 700 is not.

The lens is not 'broken' (which is what a 'fix' implies) it is just designed to be used with correction software. If it was not designed this way the price would sky rocket.

We can only hope suitable software is a added to the FS series of cameras.

S
 
alaskacameradude said:
I just got it and tried it out on my cameras. As noted, pillow distortion on the FS700. However, straight as straight can be on my VG20.
I guess the VG20 is considered a still camera???? Is it the higher MP count on the VG20 (16 megapixel vs. 8 megapixel for the FS700)
that allows them to do this on the VG20 and not the FS700?? Questions, questions. I will say, if they do fix it for the FS700, I would
guess it would be a VERY popular lens. Nice images, steadyshot (just standard, not active, but it works quite well, even at 105mm),
nice autofocus, also the 'tap screen where you want to focus' works great with this lens. Good range, pretty decent DOF with F4,
really just all around nice as can be but for that stupid distortion. I mean, I guess I can use it on my VG20, but I REALLY want
to use it on my FS700! It's got a little more range that that Fuji and only a stop slower! It has so much potential, but it is ruined
for the FS700 by the distortion. Guess I'll give Sony a call and see what they say.....if it sounds like they will be coming out with a fix,
I will probably keep it and use it on my VG20 until the fix comes out. If they cannot fix it or are not interested in fixing it for the
FS700, I will be sending it back.
Click to expand...

Trying taking shots of some boring grids, or some kind of regular pattern with this lens and perhaps a known lens.

The issue of software undistortion is that it will smear and resample the image, like warping in photoshop. There's no magic bullet, the image will be degraded. The question is does this undistort happen on the 1080p image or on the higher resolution source image? Isn't the VG20 basically a nex stills sensor, in which case it could be 16mpix which would hold enough resolution that by the time the image was down to 1080p it would look okay.

However i find it very, very difficult to believe that it happens on the high res image because

1) The processing power required to real time undistort on 16mpix images is probably beyond what's in that camera
2) If the camera could do the above then the camera is also capable of scaling a 16mpix image down to 1080 which is definitely doesn't do, otherwise the image quality would be stunning (and it's not). I'm pretty sure the camera is binning/lineskipping to get video, in which case it's not reading enough off the sensor in the first place.

cheers
Paul
 
The undistort does happen before downscaling.

All the photo NEX cameras do it as well, so I guess that it will also be possible within the VG-line and the EA50. They do not onl share the same sensor, but also the processing unit...

That's also why I think it won't ever come to the FS100/700. Totally different processing...
Just sold my EA50 lately... :(
 
Erik Wittbusch said:
The undistort does happen before downscaling.

All the photo NEX cameras do it as well, so I guess that it will also be possible within the VG-line and the EA50. They do not onl share the same sensor, but also the processing unit...

That's also why I think it won't ever come to the FS100/700. Totally different processing...
Just sold my EA50 lately... :(
Click to expand...

But when these cameras are running in video mode aren't they line skipping in order to get the data off? If they are then it can't be the full image. The only sony cam i'm aware of that down samples the full sensor is the new RX10.

I could be wrong however but that's what i understand..?

cheers
Paul
 
Seen some more footage on other forums and it seems like it's working well with the EA50 (even though it's not listed as compatible).
 
Yes. It's working with every NEX, but not with the FS100/700 sadly.

Concerning the correction:
As far as I understood, the correction is applied via the processing unit before line skiping/pixel bining. As all the NEXes with the 16MPix sensor have loads of pixels, you won't recognize any loss of resolution in the final video footage of these cameras.

I also think, that's the reason why there will be no such lens correction for the FS100/700. They have dedicated video sensor technology and thus not that kind of huge resolution reduction before writing the video footage.
Happy thing for all the VG20/30 and EA50 users!
 
I got my lens today and tried it out. There is no getting around the pillow effect with straight lines which is very unfortunate because:


The zoom control on the hand grip rocker works excellent with nice control over variable speeds (not perfect but better than say the EX3)


The Images look very nice.


It seems to hold focus through the zoom range.


Even at the long end there is no drop off in exposure.


The lens is lightweight but with a solid build.


I didn't notice any drift in the optical steady shot (which I can't stand in other lenses).


Along with solid auto focus and touch spot focus this lens would have been and possibly could be a very real asset. I'm keeping it and my fingers crossed that a firmware update will make it all it can be.
 
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I got that lense yesterday and I am very impressed. The autofocus seems to be faster than from the Sony 18-200. The motorzoom is smooth and silent. The processing seems to be very good. I think it will be the perfect standard lense for the FS700. The price is very fair.
This is only my first impression but its absolut a recommendation.
Benn
 
benn said:
I got that lense yesterday and I am very impressed. The autofocus seems to be faster than from the Sony 18-200. The motorzoom is smooth and silent. The processing seems to be very good. I think it will be the perfect standard lense for the FS700. The price is very fair.
This is only my first impression but its absolut a recommendation.
Benn
Click to expand...
How can it be a standard lens for the FS 700 with all that nasty distortion?
 
morgan_moore said:
The VG20 is a compatible camera http://www.sony.co.uk/product/ddl-zoom-lenses/sel-p18105g/compatible-products#tab the 700 is not.
Click to expand...

Sorry. But even the original SEL 18-200 lens isn't compatible according to Sony'a website. Please forget anything about being compatible you found on the official website...
If you really believe the Sony site, than you can't use any of the Sony e-mount lenses...

As I use the 18-200 from time to time and also tried the SEL50 and the SEL16 I can tell you: They just work!

Okay. The 18-105 is to cheap to be true. So I didn't really beleive, but at least I was hoping for...
It would be a nice thing to have one stabilized AF lens, that isn't that slow and cheap looking as the 18-200.
Wouldn't it?
 
Erik Wittbusch said:
Yes. It's working with every NEX, but not with the FS100/700 sadly.

Concerning the correction:
As far as I understood, the correction is applied via the processing unit before line skiping/pixel bining. As all the NEXes with the 16MPix sensor have loads of pixels, you won't recognize any loss of resolution in the final video footage of these cameras.

I also think, that's the reason why there will be no such lens correction for the FS100/700. They have dedicated video sensor technology and thus not that kind of huge resolution reduction before writing the video footage.
Happy thing for all the VG20/30 and EA50 users!
Click to expand...

I don't quite understand how that could work. The line skipping/binning happens on the sensor. Only a limited part of the sensor is physically read out, any undistortion has to happen on what's read out.

Electronic lens compensation on anything other than stills is a bit suspect IMHO

cheers
Paul
 
I'm not sure I understand all this 'too cheap to be true'
talk. The last lens I bought was a Sigma 18-35 F1.8.
I paid $790 for it brand new. Was that too cheap to be true as well?
It seems to me that some things that were previously
unheard of, are now being done.
 
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Hello there. I'm new to the forum and really wanted to join in on this thread for a while, but I was waiting for account activation by the moderator for a while. Anyway, I got the lens last week and tried it out briefly with the FS700R, that I've had for just a few weeks, and got some closeups of my kids. I was very happy with the fast AF and zoom. MUCH better than the 18-200 kit lens that came with my EA50. Picture quality was impressive for the money. All was well. Then I visited this forum and read this thread. Quickly ran and got the camera and began shooting doorways and other straight lines around the house. Damn! For what I'm shooting some pin cushioning would be fine, but this lens is pretty bad. Thankfully, I also have the EA50 and this lens better suits the role of my EA50. I'll still be using the EA50 for run and gun until I can get a rig setup for the FS700 and get more comfortable with it. On the EA50, the image from this lens is fine and there's only a slight hint of pin cushioning when zoomed in all the way. So, I'll keep the lens and if Sony ever comes up with a fix for the FS700 (I won't hold my breath) all the better.
 
I only can apologize myself for my trivial First Assessment. This lense is unusable. As soon as there is a line in the picture its distorted. Thats to bad, the look and feel of this lense is Nice. I cant understand the People of Sony That they bring a product like that in the market.Unbelivable.
Benn
 
An addition: I tried the lense on my Sony Nex7 and its less distortion. Its in an area I could live with in relation to the advantages (sharpness, handling, motorzoom) of this lense. Maybe Sony can save the rest of their reputation by making a firmware update? I think the FS700 chip is even smaller than the the Nexus7, so thats not only a physical problem.
I wil ltake some pictures with the Nex7 and enlarged them.
Benn
 
As already mentioned above:

The Sony SEL P 18-105 G works with the following cameras: NEX-3N/R, NEX-5N/R/T, NEX-7, NEX-VG20/30, NEX-EA50

It's not working with the FS100/700!!!

The reason why is not clear, but as they use different sensors and processing, the correction of lenses just doesn' work.
I also think it never will. Sony won't write a complete new firmware for just one lens... Never, ever!
 
But its terrible as well with a Nex7. I have never seen a lense with that distortion with the claim to be a "professinell" lense. If you are taking photos, you can help yourself with photoshop and it will improve the image, but when your are filming, the cost is much to high for to get useful results.
I am the whole day laughing inside ( what can I do?) about a company, that is spreading a lense like that about us :-)
Benn
 
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