Looking for recorder capable of recording line level (+4dbu) from mixer.

T

techspark

Member
Hello, i preivously owned a zoom h1 but it died and i m looking for a new recorder that can handle pro line level out of +4dbu (+4dv i think both mean the same, i got these nos after doing some research). I usually record live events in my locality, the music is very loud and the mixers that the dj guys use here all output at +4dbu.

My zoom h1 could never handle such signal from the mixer and the recordings were always distorted so i want the new recorder to be capable of recording without any distortion.

After some research i have found tascam dr-2d , sony pcm m10 and olympus ls-14 that have a seperate line in port ( although the olympus ls-14 specs says it can do only -6dbv whereas tascam dr-2d manual says it can do upto +6dbv....how much of a difference will this be, will my recordings be distored if i choose the olympus ls-14 ??? )

My budget is $200 and sony pcm10 is slightly out of budget.

I am looking for more suggestions and my primary requirement is to be able to record from line level output from the mixer without any distortion , i don't need any other feature. If you could suggest any other cheap device that can do this properly, i will be more than happy to consider it :)

All suggestions and replies will be appreciated.

Thank you!
 
yea but i don't want to spend on recorder and attenuator, i would prefer the recorder to be able to handle it without having anythin in between :)
 
The Tascam DR-40 and DR-100mkII support a 'nominal' +4dB line level input, which typically can have peaks approaching +20dBu. As you stated the DR-2 with a max peak input of +6dBv would still only support a 'nominal' -10dB input or there-abouts w/o over-driving the input stage. Most other budget portables with unbalanced inputs are the same and will clip when the peaks exceed their max level, regardless of where the record volume is set.. as it's usually a digital record level.
Though a +4 signal can be easily lowered to -10 or mic level with a simple in-line pad or other external attenuation like a Direct Interface box. (aka, DI)
 
Steve House said:
Attenuators are not at all expensive, typically well under $50 at most.
Click to expand...

They are also something you should have in your bag for this type work. I keep a pair of variable pads in my kit for matching audio impedance when needed. Because mismatches always happen at the most inopportune time.
 
A sound guy once told me that to his knowledge any line in that was a miniplug connection instead of xlr wasnt true line in but consumer (-10) line in. Can anyone verify?
 
"Pro level +4db tends to be balanced so is on XLR or TRS 1/4 inch jacks."
- Yes, except in the case of the H4n, in which the XLR is mic level and the 1/4" is unbalanced and somewhere between -10dB and instrument level to accommodate (read 'compromise') both.
 
Thank you guys for all the replies. I really do not want to spend $50 separately on attenuator and want to buy just the recorder. I know attenuator will come in handy but still prefer not to have anything in between the source and the recorder. Also, is it possible that reducing the 4dbu to -10dbv signal result in loss of sound quality ??

At this point, i am considering the tascam dr-40 which has xlr line input and as per specs it says it can take max input of +20dbu. I think this should be more than sufficient for my needs but i m not sure about one thing that is the mixers have rca tape out ports these are usually rca or trs 1/4 inch jacks, can i use a trs to xlr or rca to xlr cable and be able to record without any issues ?? What exactly is balanced / unbalanced ?

Is there any other cheaper recorder available which can take line in upto +20dbu ???
 
techspark said:
...that is the mixers have rca tape out ports these are usually rca or trs 1/4 inch jacks, can i use a trs to xlr or rca to xlr cable and be able to record without any issues ?? What exactly is balanced / unbalanced ?
Click to expand...

Balanced audio and XLR cables explained.

Comes down to this -- unbalanced cables, even very short ones, can act like receiving antennas. They often pick up all kinds of RF noise, including noise from HMI and fluorescent electronic ballasts of the type often used in cinema. This noise is difficult if not impossible to remove from your audio files in post. Balanced cables, OTOH, can be used in very long runs without picking up such noise. This is why you don't want to use that unbalanced tape out port to get an analog signal to your recorder.
 
"This is why you don't want to use that unbalanced tape out port to get an analog signal to your recorder."
- I would agree if it were unbalanced mic level. However unbalanced line level would likely be OK if staying in the -10 operating level. It's often recommended cable runs be under 10ft, but I have run a lot longer w/o issue. Of course I don't make a habit of it and only when there's no other option.
Going from -10 to +4 can add noise w/o the proper interface, as the gain would need to be increased for +4 operation. It's generally not recommended but often done just the same.
IMO the DR-40 is a good machine for the money, technically, it does not support -10dB operation though and in line mode, it only offers about 6dB of boost or cut to the record level, so an external mixer/level control device is recommended.
 
Thank you again for all the help.

The cables might run upto 25ft at the most. Will that be an issue ?
Also after doing some more research I am considering the tascam dr-100mkII because it can take upto +24dbu of hot signal whereas the dr-40 will do only upto +20dbu. Will there be a problem with dr-100mkii if i feed -10dbv signal - can it handle that or i should i always use a +4dbu output from the mixer??
 
If you insist on your quest to NOT use and adaptor, the only problem is you cross of your list many recorders that would be rather nice to have. You can buy a male to female XLR adaptor - usually the ground lift or 2/3 swap versions for less than $5, and a few resistors for pennies, and for less than $10, let alone $50, you have a nice useful piece of kit. They're even not that difficult to solder, even for the absolute beginner.
 
If your planning on feeding the DR-40 / 100 unbalanced -10dB, the 4dB increase in preamp headroom on the 100 offers is a non-issue.... even in 'normal' +4 operation it's not a serious shortcoming. OTOH, the DR-100mkII has other appealing features the lower priced DR40 does not... however the 100 does not have the dual-record safety function of the 40.
 
Thank you guys for the replies. I will buy a couple of pads and keep with me and go ahead with either the dr-40 or the dr-100 depending on which one has a better price in the next couple of days. Thanks again for all the help - Cheers!
 
Hi again,

I was wondering instead of buying a portable recorder, can i buy a portable pre-amp or mixer which can record on SD card and run on batteries and also allow me to adjust the levels ???


Basically i m thinking to get either xlr out or mini jack/tape out from the dj mixer and feed this into my device and record on the device itself...will this work and if yes is there any decent device under $300 ?
 
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