Looking for new computer for CS6 Production Premium

[GregJ]

Robert, that is really looking sweet. Please give us some feedback once you have some time to use your new system.

Let me second that. I'd love to know how it turns out for you.

The only reason I bought a MacPro six years ago was to run Final Cut Pro. What with the ending of life of FCP7, I've switched to Adobe CS6, but I'm running it on my Mac Pro and a MBP 2011, and I'm dismayed by how slow it is, especially when applying effects and color correction (using Magic Bullet Colorista II). Even when using Thunderbolt connected to a Promise RAID. Not to mention the fan loudly going into overdrive on the MBP.

I assume one of the reasons for this is that I have no CUDA cards. I read on the Adobe forum that upgrading to Lion would help with the speed, even without a CUDA card, I did the upgrade and didn't find much of an improvement, at least not yet.

I just want to be able to edit, do some color correction and not have to come to a complete stop and/or wait for a render each time I adjust a clip. If the system Robert is putting together can do that, I'd love to know.

 

[pifemaster]

First off, I would like to thank everyone for their input on my quest for a new computer. I truly appreciate all of the feedback.

I just returned from the post office where I sent a check to AVA Direct (via overnight delivery) for the build that I listed in my last post. I expect that I will know more in a couple of weeks. Once the computer is built, I will be personally picking it up at AVA Direct.

I will definitely let everyone know my thoughts once I get my hands on it and get CS6 installed & configured.

Thank you,
Robert Pfeifer
Pifemaster Productions
www.pifemaster.com

 

[unadog]

I assume one of the reasons for this is that I have no CUDA cards.

I think you are right!

I have a good desktop which is my main editing computer. A 3 year old i7 920, 27 GB RAM, 2x2TB RAID for scratch & render, 1x2TB for project & media, GTX 460. Runs like a dream!

I also have a $350 i3 laptop, 8GB of RAM, low end video, 1 500GB 5900 RPM HDD. Runs suprisingly well! I never bought it for CS6, just web and MS Word.

For some render tasks, any kind of hardware acceleration results in an order of magnitude better processing time. On a test, from 120+ seconds to 17 seconds on render in one suite, with Mecury Hardware Acceleration turned on.

For CUDA codes, there is a hack to allow almost any NVIDIA card run hardware acceleration. It requires a certain base card, with 1 GB RAM and 96 CUDA cores (although some people say less, like 784 MB, etc)

You can read though this, although it is mostly for the PC:

http://www.studio1productions.com/Articles/PremiereCS5.htm

There is a similar hack to allow OpenCL support on any capable card. Some have reported instability after adding Mercury Hardware Acceleration, but it is easy to turn off and on. You will have to do a search on "OpenCL CS6 Hack" or sililar. I can try to find it in 1 hour.


You can also look at this database to compare the performance of 500+ computers on the same benchmark test under CS5.5. A CS6 version is in the works:

ppbm5.com


I would suggest that at least 8GB of RAM is required on the laptop. I don't think CS6 will ever run well with only 4 GB.

More later.

Michael

 

[iSe7en]

Came across this thread and have a few beginner questions. I have a pretty beefy system of my own with a 128Gb SSD running my operating system and CS5.5 Production Premium. Was looking to get 2 1Tb drives in RAID0 for all of my video, then another 1Tb drive for everything else. It sounds like I might be going about this wrong based on what I've read so far? What would be the suggested location for CS5.5 / video / audio? Appreciate any input!

 

[unadog]

No, that sounds OK.

The only thing I would do is bump teh drives to 2TB. The 2TB Seagate Barracuda have been selling for $110 to $100 at Amazon, Tiger Direct, etc, lately.

They score second only to the 10,000 RPM Velociraptors on Tom's Hardware desktop benchmarks. I have seen folks complain of DOA issues on **previous** generations of Seagate drives at Newegg.

I would do exactly what you said,, use 2x 2TB in RAID 0 for scratch and render, 1x 2TB (or 2 in RAID 10) as the project & media drive.

I would also bump the RAM on your machine to a minimum of 16GB, possiblly 24, depending on what you have installed.

What is your CPU? What is your graphics card? GPU is very important, more so for CS6.

Shouldn't cost too much. Post your details!

Best,
Michael

 

[unadog]

Okay, here is some of my humble input.

1. Why a SSD as a System disc. No benefit, than a bit faster starting of applications and system (you really just saving a few seconds here and there, opposed to a fast HDD)

I do agree with this for a machine that will be primarily a CS6 editing machine.

Everyone likes the SSD's, and I can't really argue. But for CS6 performance, that is the last thing I would do.

Most people advise against using SSD's as scratch & render drives too, as they have a limited number of read/write cycles. Now that number is pretty high, but I also don't know how many cycles Adobe would run it though, and how long it would last.


RAID 0 is for anything that is 1) Already carefully backed up, or 2) Transient and not critical that you can recreate.

A 2 drive RAID 0 has twice the probablility of failure as a single disk drive. As you add drives the risk goes up. There are other RAID structures that can give you both speed and data redundency.

Whenever I stage a new machine, once I get everything where I want it - Adobe preferences set, grey background on the main screen, all bloatware deleted, etc. - I clone the OS drive to a cold spare, just in case I need to quickly restage the machine. I often leave the clone right in the machine, unplugged, so that if the C: drive should fail I can just plug in the new OS drive and keep going.

I have a ton of older 160 or 200 GB drives lying around, they work well for this. Along with normal backups to my NAS, etc.


Good luck Robert! Very envious!

When you get the machine, you will have too run the CS6 benchmarks from ppbm6.com and let us know your numbers, plus register your machine. I think you will be very, very happy!! Have fun.

Best.
Michael

 

[iSe7en]

Cpu: i7 3600K
GPU: nVidia 580GTX

And you said it's okay to run CS5.5 on the SSD with the OS?

 

[unadog]

Cpu: i7 3600K
GPU: nVidia 580GTX

And you said it's okay to run CS5.5 on the SSD with the OS?

Wow! You have got it made!!

That thing should rock with the GPU's enabled. You will be very happy when you get to CS6 (speeds up more effects, etc. using GPU acceleration.)

As long as you have 12 GB - 16GB to 24 GB of RAM you should cruise. If you need to add any, I would use 8GB chips, so that you don't have to throw away any 4GB chips if you upgrade in 2-3 years. You can get 24GB for $180 or less.. I used the Mushkin Silverline 3x8GB from Newegg.

Did you do the CUDA core hack to turn on Mercury Hardware acceleration? Or maybe the GTX 580 is certified by Adobe?

http://www.studio1productions.com/Articles/PremiereCS5.htm

You should have no problem running CS 5.5 from the SSD. No reason not to. Just back it up so you don't have to do a reinstall if you lose the drive (you might clone the SSD to an HDD to have ready.)

Use the 2 RAID drives for the render frames and for scratch. Use the extra drive for your assets - RAW footage, media files, Exports, etc. You should do great, I doubt that you would need to speed it up more than doing the RAID. Anything else w2ould just be small tweaks.

You might benchmark the box on CS 5.5 before each improovement - adding the RAID, any more RAM, etc. Let us know, you might report it to the database too. This is a standard benchmark suite:

ppbm5.com

You can also look there to compare your performance against other boxes with the same CPU, etc. But your performance should be really good.

Have fun!

Michael

 

[ectobuilder]

The problem I see there is that other than the processor, I would still need to upgrade alot - OS, Graphics Card, No SSD, no Storage drives, etc.

I have tweaked the AVADirect system a little further and I am really starting to like the looks of this system (on paper). Here is what I have now... View attachment 54808

I switched to the 850 watt power supply (small cost difference - just to be safe)
I added a second storage drive & Raid 0
I downsized the OS SSD drive
I switched the ram to 8gb sticks (they do not have an option to add 4 sticks of that particular memory, so I would call them about adding 2 more sticks)

I still need to add some type of cpu cooling (No clue what is best)
I am not sure if the nvidia 580 card I chose is the right/best one.

Thank you,
Robert Pfeifer
Pifemaster Productions
www.pifemaster.com

Dude grab this motherboard instead: http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=72028&vpn=Z77A-GD80&manufacture=MSI/MicroStar

It has Thunderbolt in case you decide you need the ultra high transfer speed and simplicity in it's single point connection.

 

[refocusedmedia]

After hours and hours of researching recommended hard drive setups for adobe CS, this is what I arrived at:

1x SSD - OS and Apps
1x SSD - strictly cache
1x 2TB - project files, exports, and other non-CS data (mp3s, etc)
2x2TB in Raid0 - raw media and scratch

You guys seem to be advising differently.. why?

Also, semi-related question: when you use "import" instead of just playing files directly from Media Browser, what is the difference?

 

[unadog]

when you use "import" instead of just playing files directly from Media Browser, what is the difference?

Basically "import" adds the files to your "Project Directly." You can look there, rename, sort clips, scrub, play, put up in Source window to edit, make a Multi Cam Source if needed, etc. The Project Directory will also track teh clips that have been used in teh project, and teh number of timesused, teh In & Out points, etc.

When you are finished with teh project, you can "Trim" (? I think) to get rid of all unused media from the Project Directory, copy only teh used media to an archive, and package up teh complete (used) source, assets, project, etc.

So "Import" is really just a first pass "sort" or "cut" (bad word, but ..) of which clips of your RAW footage you want included in your project and accessible to use multiple times - from the same raw footage - on the timeline, etc.

If you need to do more work on the files, like re-naming files, transcoding, etc., you can go into Prelude and do a "rough cut" there that transfers directly to Premiere.



As far as SSD's: No objection to what you are doing. That is a good way to use SSD if you can afford it, which is much easier recently with 120 GB decent SSD at $100-$120.

The only concern I have seen about SSD as cache is that they have limited read/write cycles. So I don't know how long it will last.

If you have sufficient RAM, that eliminates the need for some RAM cache. The SSD might still be useful for overflow, or Render frames. With current lower prices, I think there is less and less objection to using SSD for just about everything. Although this is from March 23, 2012, so there is still a concern about longevity:

SSDs are not perfect. They have issues associated with the physics of the flash memory used to make them. First, SSDs have asymmetric read/write performance. Read operations are much faster than write operations. Of course you have to write into them sometime but writing must be carefully managed. Second, SSDs wear out. There is a limited number write cycles into the SSD before the flash memory chips have cell failures. So writing to the SSD must be carefully managed.

​

Personally, for my video/photo edit machine, I don't really care about startup time. All I use it for is Adobe editing. I boot once every few days and don't use the internet, etc. (except to update software and similr.) On a laptop - sure, worth doing.

Maybe I'll try a $120 SSD in place of my 2x 2TB RAID 0 for render & cache, and benchmark both, just for comparison. Let us know if you do the same!

Michael

 

[refocusedmedia]

Basically "import" adds the files to your "Project Directly." You can look there, rename, sort clips, scrub, play, put up in Source window to edit, make a Multi Cam Source if needed, etc. The Project Directory will also track teh clips that have been used in teh project, and teh number of timesused, teh In & Out points, etc.

When you are finished with teh project, you can "Trim" (? I think) to get rid of all unused media from the Project Directory, copy only teh used media to an archive, and package up teh complete (used) source, assets, project, etc.

So "Import" is really just a first pass "sort" or "cut" (bad word, but ..) of which clips of your RAW footage you want included in your project and accessible to use multiple times - from the same raw footage - on the timeline, etc.

If you need to do more work on the files, like re-naming files, transcoding, etc., you can go into Prelude and do a "rough cut" there that transfers directly to Premiere.

Is there any performance difference in scrubbing through a file you loaded from Media Browser, and one you actually Import? Also, does importing create any files in scratch or cache?

As far as SSD's: No objection to what you are doing. That is a good way to use SSD if you can afford it, which is much easier recently with 120 GB decent SSD at $100-$120.

Good to hear. Any recommendations to improve further?

The only concern I have seen about SSD as cache is that they have limited read/write cycles. So I don't know how long it will last.

By the time they fail, it'll be time to upgrade (4-6 years or so). This concern that some have with SSD, imo, is a legacy problem that is irrelevant with modern SSDs in a modern OS that supports TRIM.

If you have sufficient RAM, that eliminates the need for some RAM cache. The SSD might still be useful for overflow, or Render frames. With current lower prices, I think there is less and less objection to using SSD for just about everything. Although this is from March 23, 2012, so there is still a concern about longevity:

SSDs are not perfect. They have issues associated with the physics of the flash memory used to make them. First, SSDs have asymmetric read/write performance. Read operations are much faster than write operations. Of course you have to write into them sometime but writing must be carefully managed. Second, SSDs wear out. There is a limited number write cycles into the SSD before the flash memory chips have cell failures. So writing to the SSD must be carefully managed.​

​

There are plenty of ways to workaround these concerns. For example. And even the "impaired" performance of some SSDs, in some situations, is still way better than mechanical drives (even in RAID).

Really appreciate your response, thanks!

 

[pifemaster]

Well as I mentioned in an earlier post, I have ordered the new PC from AVADirect. Now I would like to start getting things in place so that I am ready to move forward once the PC arrives. Here is what I could use help with:

This is the graphics card that is coming on the new PC http://www.avadirect.com/product_details_parts.asp?PRID=20335

I currently have 2) HP w2338H 23" 1080P monitors. I plan on using 1 of the monitors as my primary monitor for this new computer and the other monitor will be used for my every day use computer. I would like to setup Adobe CS 6 to use the monitor for my everyday use computer as the "Preview" monitor when I am editing video. However, the HP w2338h monitors only have 1 hdmi input each. My current everyday use computer has a DVI output. So I think I need the following items to make this work the way I want:


3ea. DVI-HDMI Cables http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=1023102&p_id=2284&seq=1&format=2#description

1ea. HDMI Switch http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=1011002&p_id=4088&seq=1&format=2#description

1 ea. HDMI - HDMI Cable - On Hand

I would use:

1 DVI-HDMI cable to connect the everyday use PC to the switch (input)
1 DVI-HDMI cable to connect the new PC to the switch (input)
1 HDMI - HDMI cable to connect the output of the switch to the input of 1 of the monitors.
1 DVI-HDMI cable to connect the new PC to it's primary monitor


Then I would be able to switch between using the 1 monitor as the primary monitor for my everyday use computer or the preview monitor for the new PC when editing video.


Thoughts / ideas???????

**** Added**** I see the graphics card has a display port, but I am not familiar with this so I do not know if there would be a better option using this.

Thank you,
Robert Pfeifer
Pifemaster Productions
www.pifemaster.com