Looking for a "Cinematographer / Director of Photography" ...as a Camera Operator

D

DDirector

Veteran
Looking for a "Cinematographer / Director of Photography" ...as a Camera Operator

People are contacting me and I am finding ads for "Cinematographer / Director of Photography".

A director of photography technically isn't the one operating the camera on a professional film set. Sure, some of them may, but a lot don't.
I have been working as a dop with a camera operator and a gaffer on set. So, like a real dop.
I made a demo reel outlining my job as a dop, and not as a camera operator.

But with people contacting me and the job ads I am finding, they are asking for people to do all the jobs in one. Operate the camera, light, etc.
Well, the problem is, Im more into lighting than the camera. I would rather own a whole bunch of lighting gear than own a spiffy camera and gear.
This is an issue because they are looking for "Cinematographers / Director of Photography's" who also operate and have their own gear.

So, I have my own lighting gear, and buying more as I don't have a lot. But, its that I need to own a good camera too, which kinda sucks :/ DSLR's arent the greatest.

Any advice?

If a job offer comes up and I have to operate, I will. I prefer not to as I focus better making sure everything looks good from the lighting to framing standpoint. And if I were to be doing it all, plus operating, I wouldn't notice all the details as much in some cases. But I find rarely any job offerings want a dop who doesn't operate too.

Am I now being considered a "gaffer / lighting guy" in this indie industry or what?
Like I said, my dop reel is me being a dop. Not a gaffer nor a camera operator. But some may think otherwise.

As a dop, unlike camera operators I know, I work with the director in pre-production of any production to determine what his vision is. How to light it, determine the shots and framing and how it'll edit all together in the end. But a camera operator would just show up and shoot what and how he is told the day of pretty much. I focus my job on getting what you see through the lens to look the best it could be. Making minute frame changes, camera placements, lighting adjustments, etc. Making it look the best it can be than operating the camera or doing it all.
 
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I understand the frustration Michael. I really don't like operating either when I shoot, as I find it to be more of a distraction than anything else.

When people understand why though, you should hold on tight! At least they get it and your life will ultimately be easier because of it.

As far as owning gear goes, I think I have a pretty good deal worked out with a gaffer friend of mine. I too came up through lighting and it makes a lot more sense to own lighting gear rather than a camera that will soon be obsolete. I've invested a lot of my money into getting a truck together and a bunch of lights. Now that the gear is going out and making money for us, helping us both get work, it's also making more money to buy more equipment and grow the business. So, I'm at a point where I no longer have to spend my personal money on buying lighting and I can focus on building a camera package. So, I've got a great gaffer that I love working with who now co-owns a truck and lighting with me and I'll soon own the camera. Great times are ahead!
 
Certainly on some higher-end jobs the cinematographer doesn't necessarily operate. But I can't think of a single mid-lower budget job I've come across where that's been the case.

I don't think you necessarily need to go out and purchase a higher-end camera, especially if people are approaching you for work directly (though if you do, there are some seriously great deals going on F3s and Scarlets at the moment). That's what the production budget is for - just suggest the camera that will best suit the production's needs and organise a rental.

And if they don't have the budget for that - well they shouldn't be expecting anything more than a DSLR anyway.

On the other hand, if the bigger issue is that you're not comfortable operating... well that's something I think you'd need to work on. Personally I feel the key to operating and still feeling confident and in control of the lighting - is to have a good 1st AC.

Having to worry about the camera, focus, lighting and operating all at the same time is too much (unless you've got the extra time for it - but when is there ever enough time on set?), with a good AC I generally feel pretty comfortable giving out the directions I need and focussing on lighting the set, without having to worry too much about the camera.

With a bad AC...

Well I never work with them a second time.
 
Michael,
I have no idea what the market is for a DOP in Oakville Ontario. I suspect you would sometimes have to be a one-man-band, bringing camera, lights, and microphone. Would you get enough business to justify buying your own RED camera? (I'm sure any model of RED would impress a client. :grin:) Is there a camera rental facility near you where you could rent a RED or Sony F3? If you need to own a non-DSLR camera, and are on a tight budget, consider a Panasonic AF100A, an affordable camera with professional features. Or maybe someone would be selling their older model AF100, so they could buy the AF100A. (Barry sells an excellent DVD on using the AF100. :thumbsup:)

BTW, hear in San Diego, I've seen several people advertising that they can be cinematographer, operator, or gaffer. I suspect your best bet would be to say you're a Director of Photography who, if needed, can provide his own camera and lights on a moments notice. If the client seems turned off by a DSLR, tell them you also work with RED, but that requires more expense and advance notice. :)

-- Ken
 
I did a couple of gigs like that recently. Two short films for one of the theatre schools here in Denmark... you can see a more thorough explantion over at Roger Deakins forum: http://www.rogerdeakins.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2265&sid=61f594078f91fd65937ad3f696fb62f4

Anyways, during the first session I was close to pulling my hair out during day 2. Was doing literally everything except set design and "runner". I was the DP, the operator, the sound guy, the gaffer and the DIT. And with work hours starting at 14:00 and lasting out till 03:00, it was a tough job maintaining optimism and focus. I'm one of those who suffer from not being able to sleep as soon as the sun comes up :S

The second session was easier with less lighting. More or less just using available light and stage lights on location.

But as I got over a couple of days after finishing the jobs, I recovered and the experience now just tells me that these will come and go and that's just the way it is. Only thing to do when faced with doing all those tasks is to advocate at least getting a grip or a proper sound guy and if you get thumbs down anyways, do the very best you can under the circumstances. If production asks you to to it all, they really can't blame you for not doing one of the parts 100%.... there's ALWAYS a price to compromise.

In your case I might consider rounding up every possible explanation to get production to hire in something more user friendly in both handling and workflow than a DSLR.

But in all honesty I'm with you and understand you. I'd prefer DP'ing and lighting over operating any day. Just don't think this is an option must of the time these days when budgets are cut and everyone owns a bloody "camera".
 
Having good crew is a luxury you can't always afford...I surely can't. People are contacting you? That's good news pitched as complaining.
 
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You are getting hung up on a title, I'm a DP, or I'm a Director, or whatever, forget about what a person with that title might or might not do on a big time professional film set, and instead do what needs to be done to earn a living from the client base you do have access to.
 
For smaller productions, it does make sense to hire someone who does everything.
Like I said, I would prefer to focus on what I do and have an operator but if I have to do everything I wont turn down the offer.
It's not that I'm uncomfortable with being a camera op. It's much better for the client and myself, but if they insist, I'm fine with doing it.
I've just been seeing it a lot.

I mention that as a dop I don't always operate the camera (and why) but if I have to do it I will.

The problem is that I own a DSLR that is a turn off for several people.
I didn't buy it for the purpose to make a living shooting on it. It was just to have something.
I don't have the money to buy my own camera. And cameras do come and go.

Ken Hull said:
I suspect your best bet would be to say you're a Director of Photography who, if needed, can provide his own camera and lights on a moments notice. If the client seems turned off by a DSLR, tell them you also work with RED, but that requires more expense and advance notice. :)
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I like the idea of mentioning that I shoot on higher quality cameras and then just renting them for the shoot or mentioning that I know other operators I work with from time to time.
However, if I'm right, renting cameras out here is roughly the same price I charge to be a dop for the day. And not everyone has production insurance in order to rent the cameras as some gigs aren't as big and don't really require it.

Honestly, if I had my own camera I believe that I would be able to find more work. Because the dop is a combined position of lighting and camera, and myself focusing on lighting, having a camera would save the hassle of finding another camera operator and spending more money on them as opposed to one guy who can do it all.

Does that mean I need to focus on getting camera gear instead of lighting gear?
 
Best job on set.

Camera Operator.

I love it. Always in and up close to the action ....and in on all the discussions.

I light and shoot and also many times just ask my AC to operate. I never bring in an additional operator.

Cant see how at your career stage you can be as defined as a D.P who wont operate and must have an operator.

I dont know many / any D.Ps that even consider having a camera is what makes one a "D.P"



Every D.P I know enjoys operating. ( Its part of the craft but some are better than others at it.) Composition, lens choice is as big a part of being the D.P as lighting is.

D.P = Director of Photography. Head of Department responsible for all photography.


Light and operate. Whats the big deal. What are you going to be doing once its lit otherwise?

An AC/ Focus is essential for any shoot.




@ DDdirector - how did your movie go?. We have heard or seen nothing since you asked everyone for advice.
 
I do a lot of smaller stuff and I do not like having to do everything. What stinks is not having a good grip and a good gaffer. Sometimes I wind up on small budgets with volunteers that help with schlepping and are generally helpful and into it but I'd like to bag out on any more jobs where I don't have real crew. It's tough DPing and setting lights and flagging reflections, etc. That's when it gets nuts and exhausting.

Definitely a good AC makes life work on set, especially if they can operate on wides sometimes.

It used to be, in the English studio system the DP was called "The Lighting Cameraman." Personally I like Cinematographer... just sounds more like it. All the pictures I saw from Skyfall BTS had Deakins operating. I think Arri went out of their way to get him an optical view finder because that's what he likes. I'm like shooter. I love to operate. If you don't operate, I think it's more being a gaffer which is great. Real gaffers are a gift from the gods.
 
I actually love working with DSLR cameras on shoots. Mainly because I tend to be drowned in comments like "Oh wow, I didn't know you could get it to look this good in that camera!" - And with a slight raise of the eyebrows and a gentle smirk on my part the people tend to come to the realization that it's actually My work as the DP that's behind it.
But I never offer to bring my own stuff just like that; If they want it they can rent it from me. Not that I own any high end camera, but I wouldn't want it to be the reason I get hired.
 
Shooter said:
Cant see how at your career stage you can be as defined as a D.P who wont operate and must have an operator.

I dont know many / any D.Ps that even consider having a camera is what makes one a "D.P"

Every D.P I know enjoys operating.
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Agreed, and in addition if I have enough budget for say a three man crew - I would never hire another operator. Would be First AC then Key Grip plus myself.
 
Not all jobs are big budget productions and have the money to spend on multiple crew members.
Often times its the dop/camera operator and that's it. Someone to shoot a video for them quickly on a limited budget.
Sure, some jobs are bigger budgets and can afford multiple crew members, but sometimes its just you.
Don't think your understanding me?
 
DDirector said:
Not all jobs are big budget productions and have the money to spend on multiple crew members.
Often times its the dop/camera operator and that's it. Someone to shoot a video for them quickly on a limited budget.
Sure, some jobs are bigger budgets and can afford multiple crew members, but sometimes its just you.
Don't think your understanding me?
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Sure we do. Thats why they ask you to DP and Operate.

(If you dont want to do both. Turn the job down.)

BTW: How did your movie turn out for you? Got any stories or grabs?

Did you know the Link to your reel on your website is "broken"
 
Back in the film days, the operator had the best seat in the house. The ground glass image was far superior to the video taps and it made a lot more sense for a DP to want to see the image that way. With the advent of digital, the roles have flopped and now the operator peers into a slowly-improving but still lesser image than anyone at a larger monitor.

Yes, some chaps like Roger prefer to operate themselves. After my 15 or so years as a union operator working on the lots day in and day out, I don't feel the need or the urge to do it much any more. In fact, I'm much more efficient when I'm not tied down to the camera. I can discuss the next lighting setup with my gaffer, I can decide if we can sneak any adjustments in between takes (or more likely these days, while the camera stays rolling between takes and the director is giving notes), I watch focus like a hawk and deliver notes over the walkie, or maybe, I can even take a moment to breathe (Shooter, there's your answer to "what are you going to be doing when it's lit otherwise?")All of these things ultimately add up to efficiency and all are compromised when I have to operate, to some degree or another. Now as a caveat, on a really tiny shoot like some are describing (just a handful of crew), things are going to be smaller all around and I'm more likely to operate, because I could always use that extra crew member somewhere else.

Hscully--not operating does NOT make you like a gaffer. DP's design the lighting, gaffers execute it. A DP that lets the gaffer light for him is, well...I have issues with that. I've had producers compliment the gaffer on the lighting, which rankles a bit because it's rare when I don't dictate down to the choice of head what I want and where I want it. There are times when I will grant "dealer's choice" when I'm working with a well-trusted gaffer, sure. But overall, two very different jobs.

Ddirector, I applaud your choice to stand up for what you feel is most efficient. Having operators is an argument that I've had to make on many jobs and have nearly always won. The new wisdom of hiring a DP with a camera is just another way that production is trying to save money, because they feel that they can get a better deal that way. A lot of struggling DP's have bought cameras and will charge little to nothing for them to get the job, and production has wised up to take advantage of that. It's an ugly precedent. Often they don't get the ramifications of what might happen if the camera goes down during the job; with a rental house, one phone call and a replacment is on its way. Bit of a crap shoot the other way. But then again, how many low budget jobs try to get away with no production insurance or permitting etc.

The question of whether to buy camera or lighting gear depends a lot on the market. Here in LA, lighting gear is heavily discounted and not the easiest to make back on the investment, although camera is starting to become heavily discounted too. In smaller markets like yours, less favorable deals are available. Me, I've opted to invest into cine lenses in the last year or two and it's been a good choice for me. Less obsolence than camera, greater return than lighting gear.
 
Shooter said:
Sure we do. Thats why they ask you to DP and Operate.

(If you dont want to do both. Turn the job down.)

BTW: How did your movie turn out for you? Got any stories or grabs?

Did you know the Link to your reel on your website is "broken"
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Yes, the video link on my page has been removed. It was incomplete at the time so it hasnt been put up. I will be replacing the whole website as i find it pretty shitty for a much better one.
I'll post up a new thread about my shoot soon with some screen grabs. But summarizing it, it was really good. A bunch of hickups on other departments but we made it work. :)

Exactly what Charles Papert is saying is my point.
@Shooter, Im not saying I want to turn down the jobs because I have to operate. Its more efficient if Im not, but If I have to I will. I wont turn it down. The only way it would be turned down (which has happened several times) was because of my camera. I didnt have a 'video camera' that was/is efficient enough.

Most people these days who own a DSLR call themselves "cinematographers." Well, thats not the case with me. Yes, I have a DSLR but that has nothing to do with my job, but now its becoming apart of it because I have to have my own gear and camera to have the job.
 
Always enjoy reading your posts Charles.

the true value of experience passed on to others of lesser experience shines thru in your well thought out and considered responses
 
I second what Ken H, Justin, and a few others have said; when you get a call part of your job becomes figuring out exactly what the client needs, his budget, managing his expectations, and to some extent educating them. After all not everyone knows the difference between a DP, camera guy and gaffer.. :happy:

If they expect you to do all the work for no money and you don't feel like doing the job then give them a rate that includes your daily labour rate plus the cost to rent a decent camera and lights they might need. Then send them links to some of your higher quality work, smile, and let them know how to reach you if they are interested. Leave it at that.

On the other hand if your getting calls from clients who seem like they have decent budgets and looking for some gear you don't own, well then guess what? It's time to network and make some friends with others who can compliment your skills and equipment, and together you can work with on bigger jobs. Again, the client doesn't need to know what you own or don't own. You're all going to show up at the same place with gear anyway. Chances are you can find a camera owner who will work for a daily rental rate plus operate the camera anyway, so stock up on camera ops in your area you can work with and go from there. I know I'd rather work for a daily rental rate as camera op then not make any money at all in a week.

As for telling clients you only DP and don't operate camera, I wouldn't say that. They won't necessarily understand what you mean, instead find out about their production and what they are looking for. Guide them into what kind of camera you think would suit their project and give them some quotes based on camera option A, B, C. Tell them you work as part of a larger crew and that you can provide the crew members if needed. Then work with local camera operators on those jobs as needed. Tell them you can scale it back too but explain the downsides.

Your last option as Ken suggested is to just pickup a RED One camera so you can say you have one and know how to use one and shoot with it when you need to. You can get one for peanuts these days but if you'd rather invest in lighting and only do lighting on jobs, then you really are going to need to partner up more with camera owner operators in your area.
 
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Ultimately a conversation on the difference between a D.P and a Cinematographer. I myself belong to the Light and operate camp, and for the jobs I direct and require a cinematographer, I would never hire or work with anyone who wasn't comfortable shooting. Pick up a DSLR and a couple old Nikon Prime lenses. At least then you will have a base, if someone wants to shoot RED tack it onto the price.
 
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