Looking after batteries

F

finchy

Well-known member
Hey guys,

I recently purchased an EX1r and with a with a large BP-U60 battery along side the stock battery...
I am just wondering if any one has any tips about the best way to get the longest life span out of them...? i.e running them until completely empty before recharge etc

They ain't cheap so i want to make sure i get most out of them.

Thanks a lot!


Tom
 
Check out our FAQ. In short, do not subject them to hot temperatures by leaving in a car in hot weather. Do not over discharge below normal operating range. No need to run them down, it would just wear them down a little faster.
HTH
 
Good question

Second what Alex said. Excessive Heat is not good. Excessive cold not good - especially in discharged state. The need to fully discharge was a characteristic of the old ni-cad cells which would develop a "memory" effect. Not a concern with the newer technologies.

I have heard that some of the newer types are actually rated in number of "cycles" - so recharging after every 10 minute use might not be best practice - would like to hear more from any experts out there . . .
 
pixelated said:
Good question

Second what Alex said. Excessive Heat is not good. Excessive cold not good - especially in discharged state. The need to fully discharge was a characteristic of the old ni-cad cells which would develop a "memory" effect. Not a concern with the newer technologies.

I have heard that some of the newer types are actually rated in number of "cycles" - so recharging after every 10 minute use might not be best practice - would like to hear more from any experts out there . . .
Click to expand...

Thanks for that.. them being rated in cycles is an interesting point!

Tom
 
Not really. 2 half discharges are about the same as one full discharge from the battery wear point of view. So you can charge up after any discharge, deep or shallow. It is true that storing them in a partially charged state is better than in a fully charged, but the difference is very little, a few percents/year, so if you use them every few days, do not worry about it, will never see any difference.
 
I noticed that even if I top off a battery on the charger, that ten minute charge is counted as a 'cycle' on the battery's charge cycles.

Back when I had the VX2000, I would charge my battery maybe twice a year.. because the camera didn't drain the battery when it was off, and the battery would run the VX2000 for 11 hours straight, so at my low usage levels, I'd end up charging it 1-2 times per year. When I sold my VX2000s, the batteries had less than 20 charge cycles on them.

In contrast, I've got maybe 100 charge cycles on each of my EX batteries, because they often are left on the camera and the camera drains them down when not in use. Also, the run times are about half of that of the VX2000 on a full charge. As such, I am aware that for the first time in digital video history, I will be likely facing battery wear-out one day in the not too distant future.
 
basspig said:
I noticed that even if I top off a battery on the charger, that ten minute charge is counted as a 'cycle' on the battery's charge cycles.

Back when I had the VX2000, I would charge my battery maybe twice a year.. because the camera didn't drain the battery when it was off, and the battery would run the VX2000 for 11 hours straight, so at my low usage levels, I'd end up charging it 1-2 times per year. When I sold my VX2000s, the batteries had less than 20 charge cycles on them.

In contrast, I've got maybe 100 charge cycles on each of my EX batteries, because they often are left on the camera and the camera drains them down when not in use. Also, the run times are about half of that of the VX2000 on a full charge. As such, I am aware that for the first time in digital video history, I will be likely facing battery wear-out one day in the not too distant future.
Click to expand...


So best practice is to take the batteries out of the camera when not in use and fully discharge before recharging, right? Not fully discharging before recharging is what I think ruined some of my old batteries. But the EX's batteries are a new "smart battery" beast from what I understand.

For the reason Mark (basspig) stated about the charge cycles being counted I like to fully discharge them from actual usage rather than charging them mid-cycle. Now if I'm going away and don't bring the charger or will be shooting all day for sure that is different but for the most part my 2 large BPU60 and 1 small BPU30 batteries have got a full day of shooting from me with a decent amount of time to spare.
 
I've been removing the batteries (when I remember to) when not in use for long periods. I rotate my batteries and try to use up the ones that have a partial charge before I put a fully-charged battery on the camera.

What I don't know is whether these batteries allow, for example, 1000 full charge/discharge cycles, and 2000 partial charge/discharge cycles, or whether it's a fixed counter that invalidates the battery at some predetermined number of cycles.
 
Mark, to comment on your previous question, I work mostly with one of the major brand smart battery chips, which is an industry standard. It is likely that Sony uses them too (or similar), but who knows for sure. The way the counter is setup, an engineer would program the battery design capacity in (in this case it is 4000mah for BP-U60), and "cycle counter threshold" value, which might be something like 3500mah representing a typical use scenario when a battery is most often discharged down to almost empty. So if you used the battery yesterday, and used up 3000mah, and today again, for a few minutes and discharged 500mah, your cycle counter would increment by one - during charging. In other words, every time the number 3500 is reached, the counter is incremented. I do not know what exactly Sony has for the threshold value, but if they used common industry practices, it would be anywhere between 3000mah-3800mah for the counter. As far as disabling a battery once it reaches a certain cycle number, nobody does it as it is not a safety related function. A battery just fades away with use; time and cycling both make it older. Expect 300-500 full cycles out of it, 3 years service life is also considered a typical number. Again, there is absolutely no benefit to discharging a Li-Ion battery prior to charging. It only adds mileage to its service life.
HTH
 
basspig said:
I've been removing the batteries (when I remember to) when not in use for long periods. I rotate my batteries and try to use up the ones that have a partial charge before I put a fully-charged battery on the camera.

What I don't know is whether these batteries allow, for example, 1000 full charge/discharge cycles, and 2000 partial charge/discharge cycles, or whether it's a fixed counter that invalidates the battery at some predetermined number of cycles.
Click to expand...

My EX1 Storm Case doesn't allow me to store the camera with the larger batteries still connected. It's so tight of a fit a tiny tripod plate reminds you that you still have something on your camera. It'll fit but you have to force it. A handy reminder like the dinging in a car when you leave your keys in the ignition...

I'll be quite angry if my batteries stop working due to charge count like some infamous inkjet printer manufacturer's (ahem, Epson) do. I threw away so many ink cartridges that were still printing great when Epson decided that they were empty. No stupid machine, you're WRONG. When the inkpad sponge was filled up to the point where ink was smearing too much instead of replacing the sponge I tossed the Epson for an HP printer and couldn't be happier.

I'll definitely be erring on the side of caution though with the Sony batteries. Battery charging issues were a big problem when I went to college. The "bricks" would themselves be bricked due to batteries not being used then being recharged. I don't think the EX1 batteries have such a bad memory problem but you never know.
 
Alex, thanks for your intimate insight into the battery charging system and how it works. That tells me it's not the number of cycles, but the depth of them that really matters. Ie., a finite amount of energy into and out of a given battery over it's lifespan.

I had my VX2000's for about 7 years and a TRV900 for 8 years. I had extra batteries for all three cams and even inherited two of the larger 950 batteries for use with two V1Us, where they continued to perform flawlessly until I sold them. But they had only two dozen charge/discharge cycles, given how miserly the VX2000 was with energy use.

The BP-U30 and U60 batteries are working fine so far.. though I'm nearly 5X more cycles in just two years time, as opposed to 20 cycles in 7 years. Hopefully they will amaze me and continue running until I either sell the camera or it gets inherited by my daughter.
 
basspig said:
I've been removing the batteries (when I remember to) when not in use for long periods. I rotate my batteries and try to use up the ones that have a partial charge before I put a fully-charged battery on the camera.

What I don't know is whether these batteries allow, for example, 1000 full charge/discharge cycles, and 2000 partial charge/discharge cycles, or whether it's a fixed counter that invalidates the battery at some predetermined number of cycles.
Click to expand...

If the battery is invalid does that mean the camera will not accept it? Geez i hope not. I charge my battery after every shoot even if it has not been run down completely.
 
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