FS7: Long Lens Image Stabilization

Joshua Milligan

Joshua Milligan

Well-known member
Ok, so here's a problem that's very real for me that I can't seem to find a good solution for. I film a lot of wildlife related content and have worked in various remote parts of the world filming different species over the last several years. My weapon of choice is the Sony FS7II (was the FS7 before that) and I also have and use an A7RIII and A7SII.

This January I made the switch from Canon L glass to Sony GM glass so I could finally ditch adapters and so that I could have usable autofocus in video (and better AF in stills) with my two mirrorless cameras. Autofocus on the A7RIII is very helpful for me when shooting things like two cameras interviews by myself when I'm behind the FS7II and need the A7RIII to maintain focus on its own for me. It works very well and has absolutely been worth the switch.

The downside to switching was that I knew manual focus was going to be much harder and that I would have to give up my Canon 18-80 Cine Servo lens. I was ok with this, however, as the Sony 18-110 is a good lens in of itself and manually focusing with the focus-by-wire lenses was something I could learn to do over time. What I didn't expect to lose, however, was usable IS (or OSS as some call it) in video.

When using my FS7II, and quite frankly even the A7RIII and A7SII for that matter, the IS on the 70-200 GM and 100-400 GM is basically non-existent. I know that the world says to not use IS when shooting video on a tripod, but the reality is that without IS when using long lenses, I always end up with shakes is my footage. Whenever I touch the lenses, even gently, to pull focus, or when I make adjustments on the camera, everything shows up in the shots. When I was using the Canon 70-200 L II and 100-400 L II, I didn't have those issues. The IS in those lenses was so good that none of that showed up. Everything was smooth and looked rock solid, allowing me to have great looking results in post.

Now with the GM lenses, the IS on them doesn't activate or work at all unless you shake the camera around a lot to "wake it up". Obviously you can't do this when filming and even if you did, it only stays on for a handful of seconds before it falls back to sleep. My Canon lenses weren't like this. They were always on and always actively working to stabilize my shots. I understand that people are afraid of the drift that comes from stabilized lenses, but honestly, it never happened much to me and even if it did, I would much rather have that than the shakiness I have now. Because of the shakes I get, I'm constantly having to use Warp Stabilizer in post to fix my shots, which doesn't always work too well, and even when it does, it slows down my workflow tremendously.

So now I'm at a crossroads and I'm not sure what to do. I'm all in on Sony at this point and do love their lenses for autofocus in photos and video when needed. I also love not having to use adapters anymore. But this IS issue is killing me. I can't afford the money it would cost me to switch back to Canon, nor do I want to lose native lens functionality, so I'm not sure what to do. I have been hoping that Sony would release a firmware update for the lenses that would let them stay active all the time, especially since others out there have also found this problem, but that hasn't happened yet. So what should I do? Also, I do have a great tripod. I'm using Sachtler sticks with a Sachtler FSB-8 head which is a very nice combo, so I'm not blaming that.

Do any of you, like Doug who I know films wildlife, have any advice on how to combat the shakiness in long lens filming? I would much appreciate it. Thank you!
 
Glad you like the FS7 MK2, and A7R3, I own both and GM glass. But for interviews I would not use my GM glass on the FS7 MK2, prefer the Fujinon MK 18-55 which I have used with great success. And for tripod I have the same FSB-8 head, but it is not that stable for long work. I only use it for up to 200mm at times and then it is just not stable enough. My experience for long work is a tripod/head that supports minimum four times the load you have on it. With mid-level spreader I have had decent success.

I have shot wildlife with Doug, and he has a very heavy duty tripod and I am sure does not use image stabilization while shooting. Doug could correct me but I would be shocked if he used it on a tripod.

It is technique and light smooth moves that make it work. Also great lens support, which you might already have? Figured I would just give a few thoughts off the top of my head, because unstable footage is no fun in post.
 
I haven't used the FSB-8 but from what i can see that's a tiny head and tripod for long lens work. Personally i never use anything that small for any work though I guess for running around it would be OK. Most people I know don't go below an 18 and for long lens even prefer a Sachtler 20.
 
I rarely ever use lens stabilization when shooting video(rarely use still lenses anymore), because of the aforementioned drift that can happen on a tripod. Even at 800mm equivalent FoV(center punch on my F55 with Canon 100-400L v2). You need a good tripod and head. People always like to skimp on tripod set-ups, but if you want smooth moves, especially at longer focal lengths, that's what you're going to have to do. Yes, heavy duty heads and legs are not cheap or light, but it's a purchase that will improve your work and last you many, many cameras. Maybe most of your career. I have four Vinten heads(3x 100's), three set's of Sachtler Speed Locks and a set of Flowtech 100's. I'd recommend the new Sachtler(or Vinten) Flowtech 100's and (at least)either a Vinten 100, Sachtler 18 or (maybe)O'conner 1030DS(O'conner really needs something between the 1030DS and 2560). Maybe even a 250, 20 or 2560(won't fit a 100mm bowl, though). If your main thing is long lens wildlife, you'll soon forget about the $$$ spent after shooting with a great set-up a few times and how much better and easier it is.

If you're on REDUser, there's a group buy going on for Sachtler with really great prices. You can get a Sachtler 18/Flowtech package for over $2K off.

Might be cheaper to get your old Canon glass back, but the tripod & head will transcend the cameras and glass.
 
Last edited:
Totally agree. A perfectly balanced camera on a beefier tripod should make all those lens issues go away. FSB-8 is not enough support for that setup.
 
Joshua Milligan said:
I'm using Sachtler sticks with a Sachtler FSB-8 head which is a very nice combo, so I'm not blaming that.
Click to expand...

As other people have said already you probably should be blaming that. No stabilization should ever be necessary for wildlife from a tripod, and if you THINK you need stabilization then your equipment is not good enough -- or your skills are not good enough. Let's assume it is the equipment. I have a Sachtler FSB-6 w/ Flowtech 75 legs and aFSB-10 w/ Flowtech 100 legs and i wouldn't use either one of them for series wildlife shooting with an FS7. For wildlife I use my Oconnor 1030D with 35L legs and even that combo is just barely heavy and stable enough. I'm seriously considering moving up to the Oconnor 2560. But then weight becomes an issue when working along, whcih is the case 99% of the time.

BTW, you shouldn't be using auto-focus for wildlife, either. You absolutely must focus manually. AF almost never fast enough or accurate enough for video. The only camera I've used that I would make an exception for is the Z90 with it's phase-dectect hybrid system. It is amazing. But that is with a fixed lens designed for that camera, and the focal length isn't long enough for serious wildlife shooting anyway.
 
Last edited:
Doug Jensen said:
As other people have said already you probably should be blaming that. No stabilization should ever be necessary for wildlife from a tripod, and if you THINK you need stabilization then your equipment is not good enough -- or your skills are not good enough. Let's assume it is the equipment. I have a Sachtler FSB-6 w/ Flowtech 75 legs and aFSB-10 w/ Flowtech 100 legs and i wouldn't use either one of them for series wildlife shooting with an FS7. For wildlife I use my Oconnor 1030D with 35L legs and even that combo is just barely heavy and stable enough. I'm seriously considering moving up to the Oconnor 2560. But then weight becomes an issue when working along, whcih is the case 99% of the time.

BTW, you shouldn't be using auto-focus for wildlife, either. You absolutely must focus manually. AF almost never fast enough or accurate enough for video. The only camera I've used that I would make an exception for is the Z90 with it's phase-dectect hybrid system. It is amazing. But that is with a fixed lens designed for that camera, and the focal length isn't long enough for serious wildlife shooting anyway.
Click to expand...

I'm not using autofocus for wildlife, nor would I ever. As I said in my original post, that is for other things.
 
Doug Jensen said:
I totally agree and I tell them that every chance I get.
Click to expand...

I told them a few NAB's back, as well. The rep took notes and seemed to be genuinely interested.

Full +/- 90 tilt
at least 50lbs payload
100mm ball
Under 10lbs
Front & rear pan handle rosettes
 
I recall shooting at the end of an old B4 lens with a doubler and a sachtler 18 or 20 and even then I would put a sandbag on the camera to keep it from shaking especially since you need to have your hands on it to ride focus.
 
The weakest link in my stability has always been the damn v-lock system. There's always too much play in them. From way back in the Betacam days and still today with the F55 and FS7. I would happily buy a non-Sony VCT plate if I knew for sure it would provide a more secure mount.
 
My same friend that has the Fibertec's has also had a Chrosziel VCT plate on an "extended demo", as well, and says that it is way better than our old Sony VCT plates. I played with it for a minute, but I'd need a lot more time with it to make the decision if it is worth over 2x the price. One of the big differences between the Sony style and Crosziel and Arri's, the Crosziel and Arri's tighten down/lock the rear tie-down, whereas the Sony's don't and the Sony VCT's are spring loaded to move slightly to allow for slight camera length differences(more of an issue in the old dockable days). Some of the play isn't always just between the camera and VCT plate, sometimes it's between the VCT and head(I guess the wedge plate).
 
Last edited:
Run&Gun said:
One of my friends just picked-up his third set of Fibertec legs. He's friends with a Vitec rep who had a set that he couldn't sell(since they don't make or sale them anymore), so I think he gave them to him on "permanent loan".

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?171847-GROUP-BUY-Sachtler-Tripod-Packages!
Click to expand...

Free, now that is a good deal ono Fibertech sticks. Thanks for the link, I would love to get a rock of pod, but not till the new year says the accountant.
 
Thanks for the replies. I guess I thought I had spent a decent amount on a tripod when I dropped $2,600 on a Sachtler FSB-8 plus sticks. In my area where everyone uses a $200 Manfrotto, I thought I was doing really well. Plus, my camera weighs in total around 16-17 pounds, so with a 20 pound capacity, I thought I was covered.

I can't afford to purchase another tripod until the new year, but until then I guess I'll plan on picking one out. I love Sachtler and would like to stay with them. I also really like the style of legs you can get with their new flowtech design, so that's a plus. I am looking at B&H at the Flowtech 100 tripod with the Video 15 SB Fluid Head (link below). Will that work well for me?

Also, there's one thing I still don't understand. When running a 100-400 with my A7SII or A7RIII on my FSB-8 setup, my footage is still shaky no matter how gentle I am and I can't imagine the FSB-8 isn't capable of handling that, so why am I seeing so much shakiness?

Link: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1431238-REG/sachtler_1505ftms_system_video_15_fluid.html
 
I think the video 15 should work. Here's the unfortunate reality--the more mass you have, the steadier your camera is on the tripod. Ideally, you should allow for twice the head capacity of your camera at it's heaviest configuration.

I use an F5 with long lenses and full brick batteries. It's about 25lbs and with my Sachtler Video18 with 2 stage CF legs, and it's about perfect. There is a sweet spot between weight and capacity for every head. Then you have to factor in how much overhead you have in capacity as your fluid head ages. It will gradually lose functionality until you have to have it rebuilt or replace it. (talking years here)
Yes, it's a heavy tripod, but when you balance the camera properly you will have very delicate fingertip control of the camera, which allows for subtle movement with telephoto lenses...no stabilization needed.

Of course, 40 years of practice helps, too...
 
Last edited:
If money is tight(and isn't it always, now?), eBay is actually a good resource for used, quality heads. I have seen a lot of incredible deals on high-dollar, higher-end heads vs. their new prices.
 
I don't have much experience with it but I suspect that a sachtler 15 is still not going to cut it for long lens work. in my world I've very rarely even seen a pro show up with anything less than an 18 and even that is considered a little dicey for long lenses especially in even moderate wind. I sympathise with your concern about about the costs though. Maybe you could look into the heavier Manfrottos though I've only rarely tried them. Likewise some people have had good luck with the Secced chinese sachtler knock offs. I'd seriously consider those. You can also go for a used Sachtler 18 or the best kept secret is finding a Sachtler "Caddy" which was a rebranded Sachtler 18 from the 90's when they were trying to battle with Vinton. I have a Caddy that I got for practically nothing because the seller didn't know what it was and its been great for many years. The problem these days is that Sachtler no longer services its older 18's and Caddy's so that's something to look at. On the other hand these things rarely need any servicing. Good luck.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top