Logline help please :)

"After inadvertently pitching a previous hit 80's movie, two novice writers struggle to keep their secret hidden when they plagiarize the entire script as a way to get their ticket to hollywood."
 
It seems like youre making progress, but the logline still seems to ring a bit hollow for me. One of the reasons (and Im sorry to reiterate the point) is that we have no information on your protagonist(s) except that they are novice writers. We need to know what makes these characters unique, and why they are THE characters to tell this story through, and I think that answering that question will solve some of my other problems (such as not understanding the internal goal or the personal stakes for the characters).

Similarly, if this really is a split-protagonist movie, you need to differentiate these characters for us. In an ensemble piece, you can get away with less detail for characters in a log, but in a split protag we need to understand these two characters in a bit more detail. As it comes across now, it seems like your two protagonists have the same presence, goal and stakes in the story - and if thats the case, why not consolidate them to one character? If, however, Im wrong, I think you need to flesh these characters out a little so it doesnt come off that way.

Overall, I think you have a little room to play - your log is short and punchy now, but trades off giving us some character detail and an opportunity to tie their goals stakes into the plot of the story.

And I know the feasability of the story idea has been touched on before, but it is worth taking a look at from a log level - because if the log doesnt make sense and doesnt engage your reader, then it doesnt get past that level. My own personal problem with it is that it doesnt engage me until almost the end. The process of deconstructing hit movies to find out how they work is a fairly common practice, and even if they did submit one of these treatments to a producer etc, they could always write a completely new script from those elements (which is also often done) - its not until they decide to plagiarize an entire script that the log becomes something unique and potentially interesting to me. If youre still struggling, I might start with that decision, cut out the bit about the accidental pitch, and then use the extra room to ramp up the stakes and flesh out the plot - because while I see the conflict in your log, I think you could clarify and specify what 'struggling to keep their secret hidden' means for the second act meat of your story.
 
The two characters are brothers, one is more interested in writing for the "craft" than the other is. The other brother is more in it for the ride and possible success... he is the one lying to get to the "prize" faster.
 
"Two brothers, anxious for their ticket to Hollywood, fast track their careers when they plagiarize a hit movie and try to pass it off as an original concept."
 
mikewest13 said:
"After inadvertently pitching a previous hit 80's movie, two novice writers struggle to keep their secret hidden when they plagiarize the entire script as a way to get their ticket to hollywood."
Click to expand...

For me, the logline does not seem high concept enough, it would not get me to buy a ticket or rent the DVD. You need something else in that raises the stakes. The logline does not include the opponent, so I do not see a battle. For me, I would want to see danger and intrigue or high comedy in the story in the logline. What if the movie they stole was a mob movie from the 80s, and somehow the real mob becomes involved, chases the protags down to kill them etc.? What if God comes after them for doing the wrong, maybe the movie they plagiarized was written by writer who is now a priest, God sends an Angel to hunt down the writers? I don't know, just trying to brainstorm and make the case for putting something else into the logline and story that ratchets up the concept for more action and drama.

As is, cruel as it sounds, it does not intrigue me. But that said, just adding that something else as yet undefined could really take it to the needed level.

E.g. Two guys witness a mob hit; yawn. Two guys witness a mob hit and are hunted by the mob; better. Two guys witness the St. Valentine's Day massacre, then run for their lives and hide out by dressing up as women-- now you have a movie! (Some Like it Hot). Just my two cents worth, use or lose.
~randall
 
I definitely agree with Randall here, and I was hoping that addressing the characters and their investment to the story might help fix this. I think your next pass fixed part of the problem for me, because now you get to the start of the unique part of the story quicker and in a less convoluted way, but now your log ends before the real movie starts - youve set up the situation, but you should give us an idea of what follows - because thats the movie, the meat of your story. But again, what Randall said is spot on - it doesnt grab us (at least me) right away, and I think thats because of stakes and investment into the story.

For example - right now you have two writers who have lied. If that lie is found out, its bad for them but the stakes are still relatively low. They lose the job, possibly have a hard time getting work as writers again, but no one else is involved and life goes on. If, however, the movie gets fast-tracked into production, and they are trying to hide or change the plagiarism while the movie is actually shooting, youve suddenly upped the stakes exponentially - youve got many other peoples livelihoods tied into that original lie.

And still, I understand who your characters are (struggling writers, and now brothers), but that doesnt make them essential to THIS story. Why is it these two writers as opposed to all of the other writers in Hollywood? What about them makes them the characters to tell this story through? Take Rocky - thats not just a movie about any boxer who is given a shot at the title, it is a boxer 'with a loser mentality.' He is the ONLY boxer who the story Rocky could revolve around come out like it did and make the points that it did. He was essential. Noting that your two characters are brothers informs us about their relationship, but it doesnt tie them to the story like describing Rocky as a boxer with a loser mentality does.

Sorry if it sounds like Im harping on the same points, but I hope its making sense - also, just as a note, it might be harder that youre trying this after youve already finished your script. Boiling your idea down to a logline and finding out if it works or not can be very informative as to pointing out problems in your story or characters before you get too far in the process (not that this is necessarily the case with your script though, havent read it so cant say), but personally I try to write a logline for my scripts before I even get out of an outline - its never the one I end up using when Im done, but it does point out what works and doesnt about the basics of your idea.
 
I think Wade hit on an important point-- if the protagonists have little to lose if they fail, then the goal is not worth pursuing and perhaps is not movie worthy. Here, if they fail, they lose their job as Wade said. Not much of a loss, unless they are living homeless with family out of a cardboard box in an alley. Needs to be more at stake. Apollo 11 -- failure meant death in space, perhaps the end of NASA, loss of fathers for their wives and children. Jaws-- failure meant continued gruesome killings by a perfect killing machine. A Good Life (I just read the screenplay and watched the movie today) -- failure meant Russel Crowe's character would continue to live his sterile stock broker money-hungry life and miss out on true love with his childhood sweetheart that was meant to be. Are the stakes for the protagonist high enough? What do the protagonists have to lose that makes me want to buy a movie ticket?
 
Last edited:
mikewest13 said:
"Two brothers, anxious for their ticket to Hollywood, fast track their careers when they plagiarize a hit movie and try to pass it off as an original concept."
Click to expand...

I think if you add something in about the antagonist, whoever they may be, then it will make it a little more interesting. Maybe it is the studio itself, sort of a larger entity like the Empire in Star Wars. Or maybe you've personified this threat to the two writer brothers by turning a producer, rival writer, studio exec, egomaniac movie star, crazy director, etc... Whoever that may be, if you could work them into the logline, then I think it would be better.

Or how about adding in something about what they do, learn, experience? It could be something about the film's thematic material.

Some examples:

"Two brothers, anxious for their ticket to Hollywood, fast track their careers when they plagiarize a hit movie and try to pass it off as an original concept, and are then blackmailed by a washed up producer who discovers their dirty little secret."

"Two brothers, anxious for their ticket to Hollywood, fast track their careers when they plagiarize a hit movie and try to pass it off as an original concept, only to discover that there are really no original ideas left anymore."

"Two broke as hell brothers, anxious for their ticket to Hollywood, fast track their careers when they plagiarize a hit movie and try to pass it off as an original concept, go through development hell after a washed up producer discovers their dirty little secret and finally discover that there are really no original ideas left anymore."

---------------------------------------------------------------

The problem I see here, and the problem with coming up with a good logline in general is that so much has to be conveyed in a single sentence. I'm wondering if we are asking too much from this logline? Then again, the original and more sparse logline sounded interesting to me so maybe I'm not the best judge of it. Also, not having read the script makes it near impossible to tell if the logline is actually effective in relation to this particular script.

I understand that the essence of the film needs to be conveyed, but it seems like people expect the whole darn film or script to be conveyed in the logline. Seems like a little too tall an order to me. I'm not saying your comments and suggestions aren't valid guys, because they are.

I don't know where this whole business of judging a script on its logline started, but it doesn't make much sense to me. I'd wager that a huge number of brilliant scripts slip through the hands of producers and studio execs because of this.

Remember when magazines like Creative Screenwriting used to publish short blurbs on what sold in Hollywood that month in the back of the magazine? The loglines included were indeed sometimes as simple as "two guys run from the mob". What would be nice is if there was a website or book that had a compilation of actual loglines from successful films. I'm talking the real loglines created by the screenwriter of that particular film. Actually what he or she presented to their agent or the studio when pitching or submitting the script.

Maybe someone with the proper knowledge and experience should write a whole book on crafting the perfect logline?
 
Last edited:
I think it could be a great exercise to do a thread here and practice loglines for a number of popular films most of us have seen, imagine what we could learn doing that.
 
IMO loglines are very difficult for some scripts after the scripts have been written, if the scripts are missing certain elements (internal goal, character flaw, etc). But I am really starting to believe and internalize the fact that creating a great logline with as many or all of those 5 elements mentioned earlier can do a number of very positive things-- such as focus the writer on what the story is about before even starting to outline the story, including the external as well as internal story, character arc, etc.; and also set up a great logline to snag the attention of the busy agent or exec giving you only 15 seconds to impress them about your story by means of the logline before they either toss it in the "pass" pile or walk out of the elevator to meet something else.
 
Randall_Oelerich said:
I think it could be a great exercise to do a thread here and practice loglines for a number of popular films most of us have seen, imagine what we could learn doing that.
Click to expand...

Great idea. It could be a perfect smaller fest-type of activity to have in between the scriptfests.

LOGFEST. I say bring it on.
 
there is a pretty awesome website called done deal pro: http://www.donedealpro.com/default.aspx

that keeps track of most (if not all) sales that are going on in hollywood at the moment - among other things it gives you a brief synopsis of writers, loglines, summaries etc. and notes whether the sale was on spec, an adaptation, or development (it might be shockingly depressing how few are on spec). again, some logs are more brief summaries of the idea, but youve got some great examples of work thats being actively sold. although it isnt free (parts of it are, but to see the month-by-month sales you might need to sign up), its a very valuable tool depending on what youre looking to do.

and again, loglines are fickle beasts - they can point out problems / holes in your story, but arent necessary to spend this much time for on every project. if this is a script that youre looking to shoot yourself, go right ahead with it, but if its something that is to be sold on spec, then you should spend as much time as possible making that log as good as it can be - it is true that some scripts with very bare loglines can get sold, but i would say that that is not the norm - they probably either had a very generous reader, were very skillfully executed, or were from already partially established writers (or some combination of the three).
 
I'm tearing the script apart and re-writing it..... I fully expected to re-write it anyways.... and knew it was going to suck regardless.... though it is a good writing exercise.
 
an executive does find out what the guys have done, and blackmails them..... I will have to raise the stakes though.....
 
Lt_Col_Wade said:
there is a pretty awesome website called done deal pro: http://www.donedealpro.com/default.aspx

that keeps track of most (if not all) sales that are going on in hollywood at the moment - among other things it gives you a brief synopsis of writers, loglines, summaries etc. and notes whether the sale was on spec, an adaptation, or development (it might be shockingly depressing how few are on spec).
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. I'm familiar with the site, so I'll have to check back and take a look at the script sales section.

Lt_Col_Wade said:
(it might be shockingly depressing how few are on spec).
Click to expand...

This what really bums me out about screenwriting these days. The spec market is dying, or maybe it's already dead? Just recently I've read an article in Creative Screenwriting about Christopher McQuarrie and how he almost quit screenwriting due to the studios mentality of not wanting to entertain the thought of considering even a successful and established writer's spec, unless that writer has already attached a movie star and a director. Otherwise the studios feel that is not worth the effort. Explains why there are so many remakes and adaptations. Sadly I think that this mentality is going to become the norm until the concept of an original movie is nonexistent except for indies. :(
 
mikewest13 said:
I just finished my first comedy script about a couple of writers who accidentally send a treatment/pitch to a studio for an 80's movie they love (weird science). Loglines:

"When two struggling writers inadvertently sell a plagiarized script to a big studio, they risk everything for their ticket to hollywood"

"Having accidentally pitched a hit 80's movie, two struggling writers may finally have their big break, but only if they can keep their secret from being discovered."
Click to expand...

Hi Mike,

The first one suggests a nebulous consequence (and irony), while the second one-liner suggests a plot point (secrets generate audience curiosity).

If you haven't yet done so, it's time for you to buy "Saving the Cat" by Blake Snyder. Good loglines look like:

"A newly married couple must spend Christmas Day at each of their four divorced parent's homes" (4 Christmases)

"A just-hired employee goes on a company weekend and soon discovers someone's trying to kill him" (The Retreat)

"A risk-averse teacher plans on marrying his dream girl but must first accompany his overprotective future brother-in-law -- a cop -- on a ride along from hell!" (Ride Along)

So, Blake teaches all good loglines contain 4 key elements:

1. Irony, a hook to get attention. It must be in some way ironic and emotionally involving - a dramatic situation that is like an itch you have to scratch.

2. A Compelling mental picture. It must bloom in your mind when you hear it. A whole movie must be implied, often including a time frame.

3. Audience and cost, striving to attract studio buyers, budget, complexity/scope, etc. It must demarcate the tone, the target audience, and the sense of cost, so buyers will know if it can make a profit.

4. A great title, part of the critical one-two punch. It must say what its about in a clever way.

Of course, there's a whole book that ties in your "elevator pitch" to the story itself - especially Blake's "Beat Sheet." There's even a software program of "Saving the Cat" structure including story-board manipulation.

Blake goes on to explain effective test marketing with strangers: ask a perfect stranger for a moment, pitch the title and one-liner. If they want to hear more, give them a brief pitch and watch their eyes while talking. If they start to look away, you've lost them (and it's time to do a rewrite).

So, back to your one-liner. While it's a fair start, it could use a heavier dosage of irony to draw in the prospective audience. My candid thoughts were, "Oh, a couple of dudes might get sued in court and eventually have to pay restitution (eyes begin to wander)." In fact, I was perplexed trying to reconcile your stated genre (comedy) with either logline. That's another biggie you'll want to address.

Hope that helps. Again, Snyder's "Save The Cat" should get you on the right track - lots of examples, learn how to cite other's high concept in your logline, and tie it all together.

Happy trails,

Michael
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top