Location audio in chopper

S

Spudman

Member
I will be doing a 3 day video shoot in a weeks time as part of an around Australia Doco here in OZ. The 3rd day involves an audio record in a Bell Jet Ranger. I'm using a Wendt X4 , 416/Rycote and G1 & 2's as my overall system. I have sourced a nato plug / xlr in & out cable from the Melbourne division of Panavision here in OZ, so I can record via the talkback system in the chopper and tested it today with the pilot. I was thinking of using ear buds for monitors inside the talkback cans or maybe stick with my hd25 or Sen hd250 cans?
Appreciate any comments from other sound people with experience in this area? as this is the first time I have had to do this type of audio.
cheers
Tony
 
The noise in the chopper is going to cut through your headphones like a warm knife through butter. Your best option is to order a pair of Remote Audio HN-7506 high-noise isolation headphones.

Best of luck with the shoot.
 
Cheers Smuir
They look like what I need.

Re the nato cable,
The cable has the nato jack plug on one end and two xlrs at the other . The male xlr feeds my mixer with talk back signal in, however I'm not sure about how the female xlr would be used in this operation?
I am guessing that it would be used to send signal back into the chopper talk back so what would I be sending back?
Also I noticed you can get the optional mic with th HN-7506 cans so what should I be ordering?
 
I used a pair of Etymotics isolation earphones inside of the David Clark headsets.

The Etymotics by themselves provide a lot of isolation, which is why I got them. However, the David Clark headset, with its built-in mic, allows me to talk to the pilot.
 
DCSensui said:
I used a pair of Etymotics isolation earphones inside of the David Clark headsets.

The Etymotics by themselves provide a lot of isolation, which is why I got them. However, the David Clark headset, with its built-in mic, allows me to talk to the pilot.
Click to expand...

Cheers thanks for all the great information, (re this must get it right the first time audio job)
 
I'm confused: The only thing you're going to be recording in a chopper is the noise of the engine, and you most definitely don't need a headphone to monitor that. The noise is just going to slice through everything. Am I mistaken?
 
I'm afraid you're mistaken on both counts, Seunosewa.

Whenever sound is being recorded, somebody'd better be wearing headphones. Even if all other sounds will be drowned out by the helicopter's engines, you want to make sure that engine noise is being cleanly recorded. The same issues that plague dialogue recording (mic handling, line hum, distortion) can also occur when recording loud effects, with the added problem of high-SPL mic distortion.

As for actually getting useable dialogue out of an in-flight chopper, that's also entirely doable (though trickey). Spudman's plan to patch into the in-flight communication system is probably the best option, since the proximity of the headset microphones will help lift the voices clear of the engine noise. The down-side of the communications patch is that the mics in question are designed for utility, rather than a full sound and rich tone. The 416 and G1/2 mic's are unlikely to work in this situation, since the environmental noise will likely overload those particular mics.

Isolation headphones will perform two crucial roles in this scenario: they'll tell you what's on the track, and (more importantly) they'll protect your hearing. You're only issued one set of ears, so its important to take care of them.

I would like to make one more suggestion, if I may. Since the communication system will only take up a single track, why not use the remaining track for production effects? A camera-mounted dynamic mic will give you better production ambience than the headset mics alone, which will come in handy during post-production. The electrovoice 635a(b) is my go-to mic for anything that's going to be crazy-loud: they're kind of dull and noisey when things are quiet, but they really spring to life when you're up around 120 dB.
 
Another suggestion: If you're not able to directly connect to the aircraft intercom, you can slip a small lav mic into the earcup of the headset. Use medical tape to secure it to the cushion so it doesn't slip out.

Or if there's another unused pair of headsets on board, you can sandwich the lav mic between the headphones and temporarily tape the ear cups together like a clam shell. It'll seal out exterior noise, as well as allow you to record what's going on with the pilot and ATC.
 
Smuir , Its alwasy a bit of a gamble doing seperate video tracks on the fly but I think in this case its worth it . The chopper is $1400.00 aus per hr and we have it for only 2 . I have an Ev re15 so am hoping it will suffice vs the 635?.
I Wonder if I should carry an extra inline xlr pad for the Ev, maybe 30db?
DC Sensui thats another great idea I will be keeping in mind. Can you let me know which model Etymotic earphones you use I was looking at the er4b?
cheers
Tony
 
Cheers DC Sensui
By the way the camera is being fitted to a camera mount below the nose of the chopper from memory, so I imagine there will be remote control for this somewhere inside the cab.
So I guess I should mount my re15 on the camera?
 
On-camera would probably be a good, convenient place for the RE-15. The RE-15 should do the job nicely, although it does have a cardioid pickup pattern (versus the omni 635), so the sound will change more dramatically as you reposition the camera. Another option would be to use an EZ-clamp or Magic-Arm to clamp the mic to a fixed piece of the chopper, but that would tend to complicate things.

I'm not certain if you'll need the 30dB pad, since you should be able to set a propper gain on the mixer. Just to be safe, you'd better bring it along.
 
Re the fx , I might record these as a wild 1 minute track seeing how they will be edited and mixed in later, that way I can record dialogue on both tracks of the camera for safety sake.
Also if the dialogue is obviously inside the cabin wouldn't I be recording fx inside as well?
I like the idea of the magic clamp I have been meaning to get something like that for a while but haven't gotten around to it.
 
Have ordered a pair of Remote Audio 7506 cans as well as inner ear phones today as the job got put back by ten days which gives time for delivery.

Thanks to everyone for their valued help and experience! :thumbsup:


"HALF THE BATTLE IS KNOWING WHAT TO DO"

a very simple motto that means quite a lot to me!

cheers
Tony
 
Just to add:
I decided that the Remote Audio cans would be a great addition to my kit and would be very useful for an exterior shot of the chopper during lift off.
For the chopper interior I feel that I might end up using the inner ear canal earphones as well as the available David Clark headsets as the ability to communicate with the pilot and crew verbally I think would be a bonus compared to hand signals / writing on paper. Not forgetting my dialogue will be recorded on the DVX cam so I will need to be wary of that and keep my replies to an absolute minimum.
Seunosewa
I am really keen to hear your thoughts in this area as I haven't ever recorded in a location with such high SPL , so look forward to hearing of your experiences, as this I feel is an area where you cant be too prepared, especially on the first job.
 
In my limited experience, you just can't record usable dialog near a very loud engine,
(like a diesel generator or helicopter). Such noise would make the dialog barely understandable to someone standing right there, not to talk of being suitable for listening on TV, no matter what audio gadgets you use. Reason: just too loud!

However, it's possible that today's choppers are not noisy as one would expect. I would not make that assumption without carrying out tests before the big day, though. Engines of all kinds can be really noisy when you're a just few feet away, and I think helicopters are among the noisiest.
 
seunosewa said:
In my limited experience, you just can't record usable dialog near a very loud engine,
(like a diesel generator or helicopter). Such noise would make the dialog barely understandable to someone standing right there, not to talk of being suitable for listening on TV, no matter what audio gadgets you use. Reason: just too loud!

However, it's possible that today's choppers are not noisy as one would expect. I would not make that assumption without carrying out tests before the big day, though. Engines of all kinds can be really noisy when you're a just few feet away, and I think helicopters are among the noisiest.
Click to expand...


Don't forget... he's recording his spoken words audio using the in-flight talkback mics. I've done a fair amount of flying for the Tennessee Forestry Service doing firespotting and a decent talkback headset really does a good job of bringing in crisp, clean audio despite engine and wind noise.

I'm going to be doing a documentary on arsonists who set forest fires and I'll be patching one of my audio channels directly into the 2-way comms we use between the air, ground crews, and law enforcement. Works quite well.
 
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