Location: ask or don't ask ?

HAHAHA, the second page of comments has been hilarious. Nice work, guys. ;)

Yeah I'm not a very guerilla filmmaker anymore. Back in the day, when I was in high school, we did some guerilla stuff. We filmed in a cemetery after dark, didn't ask, just did it. It was about 29 degrees out too, freezing cold, and to be honest pretty freaky. We were trying to be respectful in the sense that when we filmed a tombstone, we didn't have the last name on there, we didn't want it to be disrespectful, but at the same time we were just messing around with no serious intentions for that short. It was just... practice, basically. But we shouldn't have done that, of course, just dumb high school kids playing with a camcorder.

We also filmed at this unfinished house, it was mostly finished, we walked up and filmed some outdoor scenes on the patio basically, totally trespassing, and we were nervous about it, filmed it quick, then got out.

Since I associate that type of behavior with unprofessional / youth filmmaking, I wouldn't repeat that. I like to do things pretty much by the book where possible. I will ignore some rules sometimes, ahem, paying crew as independent contractors when they aren't occasionally in the past, would like to deal with them all through payroll from now on, so I guess I like to be as legit as possible but you probably get more and more that way when you work in the industry longer.

That being said, I only respect things that make sense and I don't believe infringe on my basic constitutional rights. For instance, I don't intend to seek any permits for filming in private property locations in Los Angeles. FilmLA can blow me. They don't have any right to tell anyone what they can and cannot do on private property. They aren't even a government branch. That wouldn't hold up for a second if anyone took them to court, no chance. Now if you're making too much noise, that's a separate issue, has nothing to do with filming, but if I want to have a crew of 8 come into my condo and film a scene for my short film, am I going to get a permit? Of course not. I own my condo. I'd like to see them try to come in here. My Glock 9mm says nobody comes in here without a search warrant, certainly not some idiots at FilmLA, a private non-governmental organization that somehow thinks they have governmental rights when they in fact do not.

Besides that, I'm perfectly happy to get a permit when I'm filming on public property, it just makes sense, it keeps the city aware of what's going on, my insurance company would not be happy if I didn't, and paying money to that corrupt organization isn't as bad when it's at least being done for filming on city property.

I'm completely convinced that FilmLA is as corrupt as they come, though. The front desk guy actually tried to steal money from me last time I got a permit, couldn't believe it, my DP said I should report him, but I have no proof besides my word, that's the point, he knew that as well. He knew if he was successful, I couldn't prove it. Plus they break their own rules constantly, filming a music video across from my condo, next to a neighboring condo, and next to two more close-by condos, until 5 a.m., blaring music, without asking permission from ANY of us homeowners, which according to their bylaws is required! Someone got paid off on that one, obviously. There are so many favors and bribes going on there it's just ridiculous. That's why as much as possible, if it's not too big of a risk to my production, I wouldn't bother getting a permit. Only if I have to, where it's a big enough shoot that I can't afford to take chances, will I get a permit. Most other cities have no such ridiculous organizations. If you want to film on your own property in any other county of the entire U.S., I doubt you'd have any problems!
 
That's the beauty of living in flyover country. I live in a town of about 50,000 people and I can shoot pretty much anywhere I want to without a permit.:thumbsup:
 
In this case Randell did the right thing..... A little research paid off!

I'm all for playing by the book and having everything above board. That said..... I know every so often I'm gonna have to push the limits and step over the line..... All in the spirit of getting the shot.

"Sometimes it's better to ask for forgiveness, Than permission"

frisco
 
frisco said:
"Sometimes it's better to ask for forgiveness, Than permission"

frisco
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So... then it is ok for the drug addict to sell the stuff he just stole out of your car, or the guy to not accept "no" for an answer on a date too? The line is there for a reason, to separate "Us" from "Them". Don't cross the line for something as little and meaningless as just getting the shot. That makes you like the scumbag paparzzi.
 
Well, there is obviously a bell curve with regards to willingness to shoot guerrilla.

I think the more experienced you get the more you move on the side of caution, and it's not so much resource dependent as it is awareness of the consequences.
 
Capt Quirk said:
So... then it is ok for the drug addict to sell the stuff he just stole out of your car, or the guy to not accept "no" for an answer on a date too? The line is there for a reason, to separate "Us" from "Them". Don't cross the line for something as little and meaningless as just getting the shot. That makes you like the scumbag paparzzi.
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Anybody here on this forum intentionally drive over the speed limit on a road, knowing they are doing so, knowing it puts themselves and others at greater risk? I think there is a bell curve as someone just said with respect to the line and consequences, risks, right and wrong. Although of course some situations have an almost infinitely narrow bell curve-- you don't ask a bank for all their money at the teller window, you just don't. =)
 
Capt Quirk said:
So... then it is ok for the drug addict to sell the stuff he just stole out of your car, or the guy to not accept "no" for an answer on a date too? The line is there for a reason, to separate "Us" from "Them". Don't cross the line for something as little and meaningless as just getting the shot. That makes you like the scumbag paparzzi.
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Dude.... Are you for real? Meds?

Have I taken the chance and shot at or on a location that I didn't have permission or a permit. Guilty .... yes I have.... But never intentional. It's always a situation where.... Hey it might look better from across the street. Or..... Did you see that barn we just past.

Do I have an umbrella multi million dollar liability insurance policy.... Yes

Scumbag Paparazzi...... No comment.... Don't bring me down to your level.....

frisco
 
My level is, taking releases when I have my camera, and asking before shooting on a location. It is what most call Professional in attitude, even if I'm not making a bundle doing it.
 
j said:
Well, there is obviously a bell curve with regards to willingness to shoot guerrilla.

I think the more experienced you get the more you move on the side of caution, and it's not so much resource dependent as it is awareness of the consequences.
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Well said!

We all have are own value set and moral code.

Understanding the consequences !!!

Example: One time with a crew of about 20 we were working on a permitted street. I saw a park bench on another street that would be better for one of our shots. City park.... you need a permit.
Well, I said give me a camera guy, talent and a silver reflector. We go to the street and shoot a 10 sec. scene.
First off, If this were for anything Journalistic.... You wouldn't need a permit.

Second.... Being never been arrested for anything. And my only run in with the law has been a few speeding tickets. I'm gonna take the chance. If I get stopped there is a 99% chance there just going to tell me to leave. Fine....

Don't get me wrong.... I would rather not take any chances..... But, I think your fooling yourself if you think you can always operate on the safe side.

frisco
 
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Understand more than the consequences -- understand that other people have rights. Like the right to not have their property trespassed upon. The right to their own privacy and sense of security on their own land.

"Willingness to shoot guerrilla" is just a catch-phrase -- it sounds better than "willingness to break the law and violate the rights of others." Makes the so-called "guerrilla" filmmaker feel trendy and cool, rather than just criminal.

The tired argument of "well, have you ever broken the speed limit?" is just that -- a tired argument. By that logic, we shouldn't worry about obeying ANY laws if we've ever fudged on a single one. We can't condemn theft, assault, even murder because, after all, WE are guilty of breaking the law too!

Professionals obey the laws when they conduct their business. Even the ones that don't "make sense" to them.
 
frisco said:
Example: One time with a crew of about 20 we were working on a permitted street. I saw a park bench on another street that would be better for one of our shots. City park.... you need a permit.
Well, I said give me a camera guy, talent and a silver reflector. We go to the street and shoot a 10 sec. scene.
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Poor location scouting doesn't justify it.
 
I'm buying this hotel and setting some new rules for the... pool area.

Haha, that's so great. I love that quote and that attitude. I wish I was so rich I didn't reserve a room in a hotel I wanted to stay at, I just bought it for convenience's sake. ;)

I think that actually happened to me when we were filming some corporate work at one of my dad's properties, someone was like, "You don't have the right to be filming here," and I gave them a little smile, "Wanna bet?" lol.
 
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I have a drama short I am writing now, going to require being shot mostly in a hotel room. If I pay $150 for couple of nights in a nice hotel room, shouldn't I be able to shoot my short in that room with a couple of actors (and no it's not porn!), camera, mic, softbox light, without asking for permission from the hotel? Seems like a gray line. Am I trespassing? Well I paid for the room. No association with the hotel will be visible in the final footage. No product images, no logos, no hotel name.

I suppose I could ask for permission, but should I even have to in this situation? if I have to I suppose I could or should, but is this a situation where asking for permission is moot since I have paid for rights to be in that room for most any purpose as long as am not comitting any crimes against person or property, which I have no intention of doing. Hell, hotel rooms are used a million times a day for prostitution and adultery, both crimes, and hotels really do not give a damn for the most part as long as it is kept behind the closed doors of the room rented for the night; the hotels do not even want to be asked for such permission, they just want the credit card, a smile, and to hand you the key.

Now I suppose I could save myself some money and go for a $30 a night motel room, where they likely would care much less than the $150 a night hotel. So there is always that route. But for $150 a night I sure as hell better have the right to film a short inside the room, not doing any damage to the room. Should I ask? Maybe, and if they say no then I am off to the $30 sleaze motel where an extra $20 likely would suffice to get the permission.
 
Here is the deal with the Hotel- If what you are doing should disturb a paying customer in the next room, you'll at the very least be ejected and lose your money when they see you with a film crew. IF you are up front with them (Like with the Cemetery), they might give you permission, as well as keep the rooms on either side empty if possible, just to be sure no tired guests are disturbed. Otherwise, if Hotel Staff see what looks like a production crew going in and out of a room, they may just assume it is a porn in progress and eject you on principle.
 
Capt Quirk said:
Here is the deal with the Hotel- If what you are doing should disturb a paying customer in the next room, you'll at the very least be ejected and lose your money when they see you with a film crew. IF you are up front with them (Like with the Cemetery), they might give you permission, as well as keep the rooms on either side empty if possible, just to be sure no tired guests are disturbed. Otherwise, if Hotel Staff see what looks like a production crew going in and out of a room, they may just assume it is a porn in progress and eject you on principle.
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Good points. I guess I will go with the asking permission route.

Ethics, and the what-should-be-right arguments aside, the consequences of not asking permission have to weigh in on the decision.

There are certainly plenty of hotels and motels, so getting a 'No' for an answer is not as devastating as getting a 'No' for a one of a kind location. I can always work my way down the food chain, start with a nice hotel, work down; or go the other way.

For my drama, a sleazy motel might actually work better, and for an extra $50 contribution to the night manager's 'pizza fund' I might just easily get the 'Sure no problem'. I have to admit, having gotten permission for filming at the cemetery (this Saturday), it sure makes me feel much more relaxed about the whole thing.
 
Here is something else you might throw into the mix- If you are going to be at the Hotel for a few days anyways, you might offer to throw their name in the credits. On the downside, most of your larger chains would require you to go through Corporate, and they are going to insist on insurance. Try your Mom and Pop places, and you might have better luck. Another thing to keep on hand, is a prepared description of your film, and what scenes would be taking place on their grounds. This way they know up front what to expect, and it is less likely that their imagination will take over.
 
A couple other points about hotels.

You are paying for the right to sleep there, take a shower, etc. Not to cram the room full of people and plug wattage-sucking lighting gear into their outlets. They would have every right to object to that kind of thing, so the smart move is to get permission.

When you're shooting in the hotel room, be cognizant of copyrighted artwork on the wall. Usually you can't take those pictures down -- they're attached pretty darned well.

Good luck!
 
A man said to his wife, "I missed my bus this morning, but I ran after it, and suddenly I realized I'd made it all the way to work, so I saved fifty cents!"

She said to him, "Stupid, you should have run after a taxi and you'd have saved twenty bucks!"
 
HAHA, that's awesome.

Well I think one thing that does really help you get free locations, in my experience, or be able to pick up a lot of other freebies is not only a good attitude and being upfront about things, giving credit to the company / organization if possible, but also having proper insurance. We filmed my last music video in a location that isn't used for filming normally, and all I had to do was provide proof of insurance. I didn't even end up giving them an "Additionally Insured" filled-in certificate, just a copy of a blank insurance certificate listing my liability and property coverage, etc. That was good enough for them to feel comfortable letting us film there because they knew I was insured not only against damage that could be caused to their property but against workers comp claims or other injuries that they may be liable for since it would be on their property. But with my extensive production insurance coverage, they knew I would be on the hook, not them, so they were comfortable with us using the location.
 
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