Living at Walmart (MY first directing/producing/editing music video)

[Noiz2]

What is legal and what you can get away with are two different things. Legally you can't show any copyrighted stuff with out permission. The store isn't but all the art on all the products are, the sign outside the store is, and non actor who happened to get in a shot should have signed a release. etc. The reality is that it's not likely that any of them will go after you. A lot has to do with the depth of your pockets. For big companies it's more about image. Are they going to look bad going after you? And generally if it doesn't paint a negative image it's not a big deal, unless you become very high profile.

But as I said I wouldn't worry about it but I would keep it in the back of my mind and next time try to have as much covered as possible. The worst that is likely to happen is that you get a take down notice and that isn't very likely.

 

[David W. Richardson]

While they may not 'go after you' in the sense of a lawsuit, they certainly could issue a 'cease and desist' requiring you to remove the video from YouTube and elsewhere on the net, and do no further distribution of it.

As I said, the main problem from Walmart's perspective isn't you shooting in the store without permission -- it's promoting the idea of using Walmart as a 'free campground'. This may be something that Walmart could decide would be a very bad idea, and they may way to quash the notion before it goes any further.

Or they may not care. Remains to be seen.

 

[Michele Seidman]

First off, you did a fine job given the time you had to work with. The production value looks fine for YouTube, with the exception of the dog walking shots. You should be proud.

On the legal subject, I don't think your friend was correct. In any event, I can see Walmart having a problem with this video. They probably don't want to be seen as condoning or promoting the idea of Walmart as "America's free campground", for fear of their parking lots being swamped with campers, RVs and people living in most any other kind of vehicle. That could open up liability issues as well. They might also take a dim view of one of their 'employees' being shown going into an RV in the parking lot and having an alcoholic beverage. So I wouldn't just assume that Walmart will be okay with it if the song and video are popular. They could shut you down in a hurry.

As always, legal advice should come from a qualified attorney, not folks on a public forum.

All that said, though -- good job on the video!

Thank you sweetie. Yeah, those night shots bug me. I will check further on this legal stuff.

On the camping...some Walmarts allow it and others have signs that post it is not allowed.

reference
http://www.freecampgrounds.com/othercamps.html

it is not uncommon actually.

What is legal and what you can get away with are two different things. Legally you can't show any copyrighted stuff with out permission. The store isn't but all the art on all the products are, the sign outside the store is, and non actor who happened to get in a shot should have signed a release. etc. The reality is that it's not likely that any of them will go after you. A lot has to do with the depth of your pockets. For big companies it's more about image. Are they going to look bad going after you? And generally if it doesn't paint a negative image it's not a big deal, unless you become very high profile.

But as I said I wouldn't worry about it but I would keep it in the back of my mind and next time try to have as much covered as possible. The worst that is likely to happen is that you get a take down notice and that isn't very likely.

Thanks for the info. I did actually go out of my way to edit out faces of any people who walked by in the background. I made sure to avoid anything that got people we did not ask permission of. I managed to keep all name brands not visible enough to distinguish save one shot in the paint department. Maybe I should check on that! The live talent we are covered with and the real customers, I had the camera rolling when we asked them permission. I need to send them paperwork though.

While they may not 'go after you' in the sense of a lawsuit, they certainly could issue a 'cease and desist' requiring you to remove the video from YouTube and elsewhere on the net, and do no further distribution of it.

As I said, the main problem from Walmart's perspective isn't you shooting in the store without permission -- it's promoting the idea of using Walmart as a 'free campground'. This may be something that Walmart could decide would be a very bad idea, and they may way to quash the notion before it goes any further.

Or they may not care. Remains to be seen.

As noted...see link above regarding camping overnight at Walmart.

Hoping they see it as a positive thing. We got hijacked on youtube and someone posted our video....lol...

 

[David W. Richardson]

On the camping...some Walmarts allow it and others have signs that post it is not allowed.

reference
http://www.freecampgrounds.com/othercamps.html

it is not uncommon actually.

First off, don't rely on what someone SAYS Walmart said -- go straight to the source.

Now, this is from Walmart's corporate website:

"While we do not offer electrical service or accommodations typically necessary for RV customers, Walmart values RV travelers and considers them among our best customers. Consequently, we do permit RV parking on our store lots as we are able. Permission to park is extended by individual store managers, based on availability of parking space and local laws. Please contact management in each store to ensure accommodations before parking your RV."

While that might seem pretty clear, it does give them some wiggle room. They can claim they only meant they permit you to park your RV in their lot while shopping there, not as a place to stay overnight. It's sort of a grey area.

What's key here is that it appears to be up to the discretion of local store managers whether or not they want to allow RV parking, and for how long. But the song implies that any Walmart can be considered a campground. That could be a problem.

None of this has anything to do with the video itself, though -- it's the lyrics of the song that are the problem. Getting back to the subject of the video, other than the darkness of the dog walking shots, I think you did a fine job. It's especially good considering it was your first attempt. Kudos!

 

[Richard Crowley]

We did play the recorded version of the song in her ears with ear buds and ran the wires down her back so they would not be visible. In the original the sync is nearly perfect, save some human error in matching every single word perfectly. Those things I tried to hide with cut away's.

Right. But the point was ALSO recording the playback track on the camcorder while shooting. That gives you an almost foolproof way of syncing the video clips with the audio track. Was the reason for using earbuds to remain "stealth while shooting inside the store?

You know what bugs me about that start...I actually DID put a color card at the very open. It is so short it really is not visible at since it was only 1 frame but that lines up the sound perfect on the original. We did have to search the takes to find one where the open was perfect 'lips sync' wise because of how it opens.

Sorry, you lost me there. I don't know what "put a color card" means?

The more I hear, the more I think it is the compression after upload and not one of the things I can do much about unless someone knows the secret to perfect upload on youtube. I am thinking of uploading it on another site just to see if it is better. I hear vimeo and funnyordie do not compress nearly as much.

You keep using the term "compression", but not in a context that I am familiar with. There is compression of dynamic range (both video and audio), and there is data compression. But no definition of "compression" deals with things like audio/video lip-sync or timing? IME, data compression (or transcoding such as you experienced with WMV->FLV on YouTube) does not directly influence A/V lip-sync. I agree that something like Vimeo is more likely to preserve the quality of the original vs. YouTube. OTOH, there are some really high quality content on YouTube, so its not impossible to do.

 

[Michele Seidman]

Quick note

Rehearsing two shows all day, doing stage show tomorrow, shooting film all weekend (in it not making it...back to what i do best). i will try to catch some time tomorrow or later tonight to reply properly.

M

 

[filmman]

Michele, don't listen to us. Keep your camera, use the same lighting, edit on Ulead -- do everything the same. You are a natural; you made a viral video! Now, go tackle a feature length movie -- make sure you don't rehearse; just go out with some friends and shoot a feature with the same equipment, same crew and the same knowledge you started out with. Or you'll end up like us.LOL

 

[David W. Richardson]

Michele, don't listen to us. Keep your camera, use the same lighting, edit on Ulead -- do everything the same. You are a natural; you made a viral video! Now, go tackle a feature length movie -- make sure you don't rehearse; just go out with some friends and shoot a feature with the same equipment, same crew and the same knowledge you started out with. Or you'll end up like us.LOL

Good advice. Or something along the lines of 'My Date With Drew'. Just be watchful of things that might cause copyright or legal issues that could keep your film from being released. But definitely go do it!

 

[Michele Seidman]

Was the reason for using earbuds to remain "stealth while shooting inside the store?

Sorry, you lost me there. I don't know what "put a color card" means?


You keep using the term "compression", but not in a context that I am familiar with.

Richard, I am not sure how I would have run the song in to the camera and have her hear it at the same time...not because I don't get the concept...but keep in mind the camera came from a pawn shop...years ago! I will check out the AV and inputs on it and toy around now that you bring it up.

Color card: In my editor it gives me blank 'cards' of a variety of colors that I can use as a background. Normally used for intro's and stuff like that...but my editor allows me to shorten it to one single frame (1/29). I needed that to sync it right on the original.

Compression, I may be using that wrong but it does pertain to what happens after the upload. Someone told me that some video sites further compress it. Am I using that wrong?

Michele, don't listen to us. Keep your camera, use the same lighting, edit on Ulead -- do everything the same. You are a natural; you made a viral video! Now, go tackle a feature length movie -- make sure you don't rehearse; just go out with some friends and shoot a feature with the same equipment, same crew and the same knowledge you started out with. Or you'll end up like us.LOL

lol Filmman...after this little viral thing I can't help but wonder what I accidentally did right. maybe I should do as you say but I fear I am already a pod person film wise. I want everything to look as clean and visually stimulating as what Jack does. I want David and Barry lighting and so on and so on....

come on...I have worked in this medium forever...I know what high quality production looks like. I just don't have the equipment or crew...and like most...the type of money it takes to do that!

Good advice. Or something along the lines of 'My Date With Drew'. Just be watchful of things that might cause copyright or legal issues that could keep your film from being released. But definitely go do it!

Chapelgrovefilms...this whole thing has also made me want to revisit something I started about two years ago but never finished. I started a behind the scenes documentary on a Zombie film from an odd perspective...with ALL legal stuff, releases and the rest covered already. I put it aside because I thought I needed to hire an editor but maybe...just maybe...

Wish I had more than one monitor now...and a fancy editor...and great camera...and light packs...and....lol someone stop me. This was just a fun journey and it gives me lots to think about!

 

[David W. Richardson]

Heck Michelle, Wilmington should be crawling with good camera, sound and lighting people who'd love to work on a decent project. If I were there, I'd help you out -- but I'm west of Charlotte.

I'm a little unclear as to why you had to have the audio of the song running into the camera? Didn't you just lay in the track from a CD in post? When I shot my one and only music video, we didn't record any sound at all. Check it out...

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I AGREE

 

[David W. Richardson]

BTW, if you haven't seen it already, rent "My Date With Drew" and watch it. Very entertaining, but also an inspiration. The guy had $3000 he won on a game show. He bought a consumer-level camcorder from Circuit City because they had a 30-day return policy. So he shot his very entertaining documentary (and I'm not much for docs) in 30 days so he could return the camera and get his money back. Wound up with a fun film that sold to distribution and even had a limited theatrical run. Give it a watch.

 

[David W. Richardson]

What is legal and what you can get away with are two different things.

The problem with playing the "what you can get away with" game is you risk putting all your hard work and talent -- not to mention the hard work and talents of other people -- into something, only to have some corporate entity come along and shut you down and keep you from even showing your video because you didn't make sure you had your legal ducks in a row. In the end you've wasted yours and everyone else's time and energy, not to mention money, and you've come across as unprepared and unprofessional to the people who worked with you.

I'm not willing to take those risks. Others have to decide for themselves.

 

[Richard Crowley]

Richard, I am not sure how I would have run the song in to the camera and have her hear it at the same time...not because I don't get the concept...but keep in mind the camera came from a pawn shop...years ago! I will check out the AV and inputs on it and toy around now that you bring it up.

You don't need ANY inputs at all, assuming the camcorder has a working built-in microphone. The method is to simply play the song back (on an audible playback system, a "boom box" is perfectly sufficient). Put the boom box next to the camera and crank it up so that the on-screen talent can hear it, and the mic on the camera picks it up, also. Of course, you don't use the audio track from the camcorder except as the method of lining up the video clips to the master audio track in the NLE.

Color card: In my editor it gives me blank 'cards' of a variety of colors that I can use as a background. Normally used for intro's and stuff like that...but my editor allows me to shorten it to one single frame (1/29). I needed that to sync it right on the original.

I'll take your word for it. But I still haven't a clue what that has to do with sync? If you mean moving the video clip so that it lines up with the master audio track, can you not just grab the clip and "slip" it into place? What does it have to do with blank cards?

Compression, I may be using that wrong but it does pertain to what happens after the upload. Someone told me that some video sites further compress it. Am I using that wrong?

If the sound track sounds "squashed" (peaks brought down, softer bits brought up), then you have an complaint about audio compression. If the video looks pixelated or "posterized" or jerky, etc, then you have an argument about video bandwidth compression. But there is no artifact of "compression" that affects audio/video sync that I have ever heard of? (Except maybe as a side-effect from the primary issue.)

 

[David W. Richardson]

What I got from Michelle's earlier posts on the 'synch' subject was that it's synched just fine when she plays it in her NLE and on her computer, but it somehow loses synch when YouTube gets hold of it.

 

[milksac]

For a fun multimedia experience load the YouTube video and then open a new tab in your browser and load the People of Wal Mart web site. http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/
Hit play on the YouTube video and then switch tabs to the peopleofwalmart site.
Now you have happy soundtrack as you click through the pages of the interesting inhabitants of Wal Mart.

 

[Michele Seidman]

BTW, if you haven't seen it already, rent "My Date With Drew" and watch it. Very entertaining, but also an inspiration. The guy had $3000 he won on a game show. He bought a consumer-level camcorder from Circuit City because they had a 30-day return policy. So he shot his very entertaining documentary (and I'm not much for docs) in 30 days so he could return the camera and get his money back. Wound up with a fun film that sold to distribution and even had a limited theatrical run. Give it a watch.

ha ha ha I own this one! bought it a few years ago but never knew his budget was that low. wow...ok...maybe there is hope for me!

You don't need ANY inputs at all, assuming the camcorder has a working built-in microphone. The method is to simply play the song back (on an audible playback system, a "boom box" is perfectly sufficient). Put the boom box next to the camera and crank it up so that the on-screen talent can hear it, and the mic on the camera picks it up, also. Of course, you don't use the audio track from the camcorder except as the method of lining up the video clips to the master audio track in the NLE.


I'll take your word for it. But I still haven't a clue what that has to do with sync? If you mean moving the video clip so that it lines up with the master audio track, can you not just grab the clip and "slip" it into place? What does it have to do with blank cards?

If the sound track sounds "squashed" (peaks brought down, softer bits brought up), then you have an complaint about audio compression. If the video looks pixelated or "posterized" or jerky, etc, then you have an argument about video bandwidth compression. But there is no artifact of "compression" that affects audio/video sync that I have ever heard of? (Except maybe as a side-effect from the primary issue.)

I did not think to use a boom box and it makes perfect sense as to why I should next time! Thank you. The color card thing was simply about pushing the video over by a tiny bit to line up. The compression is all about the sync itself...It seems to have moved the audio and video so they are not in line anymore and the really odd part is...sometimes when I watch it on youtube it is ok, other times it is off at the start, next time the middle...etc etc. never the same place twice! no clue on that

What I got from Michelle's earlier posts on the 'synch' subject was that it's synched just fine when she plays it in her NLE and on her computer, but it somehow loses synch when YouTube gets hold of it.

exactly!

For a fun multimedia experience load the YouTube video and then open a new tab in your browser and load the People of Wal Mart web site. http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/
Hit play on the YouTube video and then switch tabs to the peopleofwalmart site.
Now you have happy soundtrack as you click through the pages of the interesting inhabitants of Wal Mart.

ha ha ha what a funny idea!

 

[Michele Seidman]

OK ya'll....this silly video has gone over 22,000 views and has inspired me to finish a documentary I made behind the scenes of a Zombie movie....

just thought i would tell you because when i get the doc done i am going to need feedback. i am on the 2nd rough draft and i need more eyes....it needs to be tightened and i am starting to lose sight of what else to tweak.

with that in mind...if anyone stumbles on this....do you know where or how to post a video to be viewed by limited numbers that does not require signing up? i don't want the world to see it until i get some fresh eyes to harshly critique what i cant see....

 

[Anomie]

Hi Michele,

If you us vimeo (www.vimeo.com) you would have to have/create an account of your own, but after that you can put a password on the clip. When you have enough feedback you can remove the clip.

Added remark: your viewers don't need to have a vimeo account, just the password.


Would that be something you could work with?

Jasper

 

[Michele Seidman]

Good thought Anomie! Thank you....I did not know that option existed on vimeo. It was originally posted on youtube because the artists who owns the song had an account there and already had some folks following her music. It just seemed the wisest choice at the time.

I will look in to vimeo again for this new project!