Lightwars - Low light video GH1 versus 5D

Part 2 of the comparison coming up...

Here are some shots made with a G1 at WB 3100k, comparing the GH1 and 5D footage on my plasma screen:

I had to defocus a little so the pixel pitch of the screen was hidden and no moire was present in the photographs, so please ignore the detail and treat this as purely a colour accuracy / gamut comparison:

**GH1**
plasmaleavesgh1.jpg


**5D**
plasmaleaves5d.jpg


You don't have to be a pixel peeper to see the difference.

Settings:

**GH1**

Colour mode: Vivid (6/12); contrast -2, colour + 2
White balance: custom manual 3200k
ISO: 100
Lens: Zeiss Distagon 28mm T* F2.8 for CY mount
Exposure: 1/30 @ F5.6
Format: 1080p 24p

**5D**
Colour mode: Faithful; colour -1
White balance: custom manual 3200k
ISO: 100
Lens: Zeiss Planar 50mm T* F1.7
Exposure: 1/30 @ F5.6
Format: 1080p 30p
 
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CommanderSpike, what I see is that video from GH1 is lot better at WB of around 5K than any other setting.

I do not know much about tests and such stuff but don't you think that you should be testing the camera at it's optimum settings?
 
BhambuNath said:
CommanderSpike, what I see is that video from GH1 is lot better at WB of around 5K than any other setting.

I do not know much about tests and such stuff but don't you think that you should be testing the camera at it's optimum settings?
Click to expand...

The optimum setting especially where white balance is concerned varies depending on what you're shooting. There isn't any such thing as an optimal WB for all scenes. You adjust it so it matches the colour temperature your own eyes see, and you try and make it the same on both cameras. That's what I did here. If I'd shot icy cold winter light with a WB of 5K it'd look ridiculous. In the shots above, the light was a warm glow from twilight / sunset, so I adjusted the WB accordingly. The difference in colour saturation isn't due to none-optimal settings. It's due to the 5D being able to resolve more than twice the colour gamut and intensity of the GH1. (DAMN!! I'm starting to sound like a Canon salesman now)

The only setting I didn't have quite optimal was in fact on the 5D. The image is slightly too contrasty (an appearance exaggerated in the photo above actually - you can make out more shadow detail in actuality). I should have turned it down slightly to get it closer to the GH1's contrast, which was turned down to work better within the limits of it's narrow dynamic range and to reveal more detail in both the shadows and highlights, plus more colour saturation in the highlights. The GH1's colour was turned up to 11 in that shot, yet the 5D effortlessly sales by on Faithful colour mode -1, which is one the LEAST saturated of all the presets!

This isn't a gap. It's a gulf. But for $1500 the GH1 remains a great bargain.
 
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Barry_Green said:
What is the basis for this statement?
Click to expand...

The accumulation of 20 years of technical knowledge since I was 9 years old, capped off with 2 weeks worth of exhaustive comparisons between the GH1 & 5D in my own hands, the latest of which are the screen shots above that you can see.

What is your basis for questioning my statement on colour when you can clearly see actual photographic evidence with your own eyes, Barry?

Love and kisses xxx
 
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You laid out a factual statement with numbers -- it is able to resolve twice the color gamut. I am asking if this is something that Canon has promoted somewhere, or if this has been demonstrated through some manner of scientific testing, or ??

Commander, I think you'd catch a LOT less hell around these places if you'd just change your phrasing slightly. If you'd say "To my eyes, it looks like the 5D is resolving around twice the color gamut", that's one thing. But to just declare an opinion as fact, without any sort of concrete evidence to back it up -- that's what gets peoples' panties all in a bunch and gets under people's skin.
 
commanderspike said:
What is your basis for questioning my statement on colour when you can clearly see actual photographic evidence with your own eyes, Barry?
Click to expand...
The photographic evidence was not conducted under scientific conditions, therefore it isn't hard evidence. And haven't most folks in this thread said they preferred the GH1's image over the 5D's, using your own evidence?
:D
 
Barry_Green said:
You laid out a factual statement with numbers -- it is able to resolve twice the color gamut. I am asking if this is something that Canon has promoted somewhere, or if this has been demonstrated through some manner of scientific testing, or ??

Commander, I think you'd catch a LOT less hell around these places if you'd just change your phrasing slightly. If you'd say "To my eyes, it looks like the 5D is resolving around twice the color gamut", that's one thing. But to just declare an opinion as fact, without any sort of concrete evidence to back it up -- that's what gets peoples' panties all in a bunch and gets under people's skin.
Click to expand...

A bit anal and pedantic, but I accept your point about phrasing. Now, back on topic. Who needs careful phrasing when you have a screen grab comparison like the one above? It's pretty cut and dry :lipsrseal

Opinions? Is my TV detecting the GH1 wrongly?
 
Barry_Green said:
And haven't most folks in this thread said they preferred the GH1's image over the 5D's, using your own evidence?
:D
Click to expand...

Indeed, all of them GH1 owners :nads:

I am confused by that. Sooner or later someone is going to colour grade the yellow leaves into green and tell me that post was wrong as well :laugh:
 
i say don't. an optimized bmw will probably be better than an optimized corolla. put them stock and see how well the perform. it's a no brainer the mk2 is going to out perform the gh1, but at least make it completely equal settings.
 
Ok. Didn't plan to do another one tonight but I'll do a short comparison at night (its dark here in UK now) with both cameras on standard presets so you can see how they perform 'out of the box'.
 
Car3o said:
i say don't. an optimized bmw will probably be better than an optimized corolla. put them stock and see how well the perform. it's a no brainer the mk2 is going to out perform the gh1, but at least make it completely equal settings.
Click to expand...
Having done a million comparisons, I can guarantee you that no settings will please everyone.

If you leave it as neutral, people will say "that doesn't represent what the camera's capable of, only what the default settings are."

If you attempt to optimize it, someone will say "but you didn't do it right, you messed it up."

If you attempt to get them to match, people will say "what's the point -- why not show how they can be different? Showing them the same doesn't prove anything."

The only people who usually agree with any given testing methodology, are those whose favorite camera happened to "win" that particular test...
 
commanderspike said:
The optimum setting especially where white balance is concerned varies depending on what you're shooting. There isn't any such thing as an optimal WB for all scenes. You adjust it so it matches the colour temperature your own eyes see, and you try and make it the same on both cameras. That's what I did here. If I'd shot icy cold winter light with a WB of 5K it'd look ridiculous. In the shots above, the light was a warm glow from twilight / sunset, so I adjusted the WB accordingly. The difference in colour saturation isn't due to none-optimal settings. It's due to the 5D being able to resolve more than twice the colour gamut and intensity of the GH1. (DAMN!! I'm starting to sound like a Canon salesman now)

The only setting I didn't have quite optimal was in fact on the 5D. The image is slightly too contrasty (an appearance exaggerated in the photo above actually - you can make out more shadow detail in actuality). I should have turned it down slightly to get it closer to the GH1's contrast, which was turned down to work better within the limits of it's narrow dynamic range and to reveal more detail in both the shadows and highlights, plus more colour saturation in the highlights. The GH1's colour was turned up to 11 in that shot, yet the 5D effortlessly sales by on Faithful colour mode -1, which is one the LEAST saturated of all the presets!

This isn't a gap. It's a gulf. But for $1500 the GH1 remains a great bargain.
Click to expand...


Yes, I do know that it depends on the scene to scene but what I've seen is that in the normal not so icy conditions most things work great around the at 5400 WB.

What I mean to say is that the optimum WB for a same scene on different cameras could be different.

Maybe you should've tried to get the exposure of tree most close to the natural vision with different setting that the camera is able to give.

What I mean is that if I have GH1 I will shoot a scene at the settings on GH1 that will give me the most correct exposure/colours of the scene and if I have 5D, I will shoot with the settings on it that will give me the image most close to original with 5D's settings.

Having same WB settings on both of them beats this purpose of setting the camera to it's best settings to get the image as close to the original.
 
commanderspike said:
That would be great, but the tree wasn't actually yellow.
Click to expand...


Exactly that's what I say that to get the exact colours of tree we should set the particular camera to the settings with which it can capture the colour closer to the original.


Setting 2 cameras to identical WB and expecting the same colours could be flawed logic.
 
Maybe you set the GH1 to WB of 3100 because that's the setting at which you got the best image using 5D.

Now if you would've tried to set the GH1 to some different WB to get the best exposure it would've been a different story.
 
commanderspike said:
What is your basis for questioning my statement on colour when you can clearly see actual photographic evidence with your own eyes, Barry?

Love and kisses xxx
Click to expand...

Can you try to get the best exposure of these leaves with GH1 so that they show up as close to what you see and then try to set the same WB on 5D and take another shot?

I'm sure in that case the 5D will seem high on little acid.
 
I actually agree that the white balance should probably be different. Shooting an Opera two weeks ago with my little GH1 and HFS100...the settings that matched up the best were NOT the same on either cam...
 
And the leaves on GH1 are yellowish, if you up the WB temperature it will produce more blue colour and adding blue and yellow will give you better greenish shade.
 
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