lighting kit advice please - shooting Sunday!

fatman

fatman

Active member
Hey gang,

just hoping to get some thoughts on what I have vs what I might need. I'm DoP'ing a film and it's a bigger task than I'm used to.

My kit:

-Diva flo 4-bank w/ silk and stand I can roll around I use this as a key all the time, but normally I have to be close.
-a small arri 'kicker' light
-a small but powerful light I often use as a fill and bounce it off walls. It's very bright and very hard - a bit embarrassing, but I don't really know what it is called.
-reflector about 4x4

That's it.

Now I may have the option to rent something and I was thinking of renting a soft source that's as big as I can get, but I will only have about $80/day budget if I opt to rent something.

Any recommendations?

I'll be shooting in a dim area with weaker practicals - there is some dialogue and some fighting - so I'll be able to get the key in and out for dialogue, but for the wider action multiple-character shots I was thinking of at least renting something with more throw than the diva, yet still be able to soften it, at least a bit.

I know this is random and last minute but so is the gig!
 
Not enough information to give you a workable strategy really. Which camera will you use, more importantly, what is it's native ISO?.Do you have fast prime lenses or only a slow zoom lens? What is the ambient light situation in your location you will be shooting in? Are all of your lights just tungsten or do you have daylight tubes for your Diva?

Three small lights is pretty challenging for what it sounds like you are going to shoot. Lighting usually takes one of two strategies. You either begin with a black box, a dark room or stage and you create every bit of lighting in the room/on the stage. This gives you ultimate control and allows you to completely design every bit of light in the scene. This isn't going to happen with your three lights. You would need much larger sources and more lights in general, not to mention the grip gear, crew and time to set it all up. The other approach is supplementing what is there with the few lights you have. This is the approach you will have to take since you only have three small lights. Nothing is impossible, there have been plenty of low budget, indie films lit only with tiny lighting packages because the DOP knew what they were doing. But you had better have a high native ISO camera hopefully, and you had better own, beg, borrow or steal some fast primes. You have to be realistic about your coverage. You have enough to light some nice CUs and mediums. You don't have enought lighting to shoot 50' long areas with two or more characters fighting and running all around the scene as you pan through it to shoot coverage. So as you are blocking scenes with the director and talent, you had better let them know what you can and cannot light and cover. Unless you luck out and the location has massive skylights or huge windows with the right exposure, you will not be able to light "big" shots. But that's okay, a lot of fight scenes live in the mediums and CUs, it actually makes it seem more exciting and faster than it is. But it will take longer to light and shoot and longer to edit because you won't be able to get traditional wide, medium and CU for a lot of it. Unless your location is blessed with a decent lighting level and you are just enhancing it a bit. Too many variables to give you specific advice about how to set up.

How about posting some pictures from your location scout of where this will all happen, some ambient light pictures, some shots of the existing lighting that is there, some scene breakdowns of what you have to cover, etc.? How about the tone of the script? Is it dark and moody or bright and cheerful? Is it an action film or a martial arts fighting film? Spy film or high school brawl? Renting the soft source is a good idea but $80.00 isn't going to buy you much. To rent larger than a 1.5k light, you usually need a generator in most cases, that doesn't sound realistic for you. Neither does renting an HMI for that amount. Ideally, you would have a 6K or 8K with a 10x10 or 12x12 that you could move around the set but it sounds as if that's not going to happen, you don't have the money or crew or grip gear needed. Everything doesn't always need to be soft light anyway, a lot of that depends on the tone of the project. Hard light is cool for thrillers, horror, noir but if you have "stars" who want to look beautiful, hard light is more difficult.

Need a lot more specifics to offer a game plan.
 
I can't tell you specifically what to do but maybe I can suggest a strategy.

Based on your small lighting kit, and the fact that there's a fight involved I would light the environment.
This means create a base exposure, keep the light off the walls as best you can, and let the actors move in and out of their key light. Blocking is as important as lighting.
This will allow you to move faster without having to relight (maybe a couple tweaks for close ups).

Position the existing practicals in a way that can provide motivation for you key light. Don't light flat.

Another tip: maybe you can bounce that hard light you have (Lowell DP?) off a wall and diffuse that bounce with a bed sheet. Now you'll have a big, shadowless source.
This helps small productions from being victims of the inverse square law. Again, don't light flat/frontal with this. And don't be afraid to add some color to your lights and play with the color temp on your camera.

Good luck,

BT
 
Thanks guys,

I'm using my fs700 + odyssey shooting slog at iso2000 as much as possible (hopefully all the time)
My lenses will be rented canon Cine primes which I'm happy about that.

And Bill I'm going to have to look-up the inverse square law - sound pretty snazzy ;)

So I spoke with my DP buddy and we came up with a bit of a plan. I'm going to backlight the characters probably at about a 45 angle w/ the kicker light - I'm going to see if I can borrow another one. I'm going to bounce off a white wall if I can and use the dive as a fill/eye light and move it further way. Originally I was going to use hte diva from the side and fill with reflection/bounce on the other side, but it's too small of a throw - and my buddy was saying it will look way sexier to just go for the hard like and bounce for fill which is inherently soft.

So the whole thing will be darker than I originally thought - but as to the genre question, this is a martial-arts movie. Anime inspired in some ways, so I'll go for that moody look, which is a good thing, because I don't really have a choice either! Also there are no windows until Wednesday, which is a day shoot with huge windows so I'm actually much less concerned about that day. I'll have the freedom to go wider for sure.

I'm going to buy some white board today or tomorrow as well to help bounce when I need it.

The ambient light is weak at least to my eyes when I saw it, going back again tomorrow for a walk-through. The space isn't big enough to do an epic wide anyway, but I am concerned a bit about my bounce/ambient - I'll really have to play around with that, the other thing is I'm going to avoid showing the floor as much as I can so as not to see the lights hitting it very much. My concern is if I don't use it the characters will look like they are both spot-lit, but with it, I may not a desirable direction from it.

Anyway, I'm going to limit shooting wide as much as possible as well.

I'll snap some pics tomorrow, but really at that point it's more like a diary of what i'm dealing with and how I decided to deal with it, which hopefully will be an interesting exercise. at least.
 
ISO2000 sounds good but does the FS700 hold together the picture at that high of an ISO? (Not that it sounds like you have much choice anyway?) I was just curious, I shot with the FS700 a few years ago. Are you trying to get anough exposure to shoot at a higher frame rate so you can speed ramp or just all at 24 FPS or ? I know a lot of Chinese martial arts sequences actually shoot a good amount of stuff at 18-20 FPS so it makes the action look faster than it is, but not so undercranked where it looks sped up? You could have some fun doing that and possibly using a slow shutter speed for some of it to make parts of it dreamy or blurry, if that fits the storyline? A lot of it depends on the feel, are the fighter/actors really accomplished martial artists or are they merely actors who have been coached a bit in how to screen fight? I've never shot martial arts but my daughter made black belt in Tae Kwan Do so I spent a lot of time at tournaments. Seems like effective fight choreography and using some in camera tricks could really help.
 
is 2000 is the base iso when shooting slog2. In other words, you can't go lower than that, it's the most noise-free setting.

I did some testing today while they were blocking. The amount of light will be fine even for 120 fps. The part I've struggled most with are 2 areas I'm shooting in. One is a decent size and will be dark, I will make the centre lit up and the light will fall to blackness which suits the scene. The problem is I have to avoid shooting the ground in that room at all costs. It's carpet, and it's really out of place and looks kind of early-mid 90s. So that's a big challenge. I also need to diffuse much more than I anticipated for the back-lite - and find a balance I'm happy with. The other room that's a challenge is one that you could think of as a mail-room. It's probably 15x12 or something close to that and it's all kind of goldy-metal. I just blocked and looked at it, but didn't put in light in there yet, it's kind of intimidating.

The martial arts stuff I'm good with - I have a background in it, and the actors, specifically one is like a real shoalin monk.

Tomorrow though is almost all dialogue, so I'm really most concered with lighting those 2 rooms effectively. That carpet is just crazy bad. If I can I'll post a photo.
 
DSC_1154.jpgDSC_1156.jpg


so this is the carpet room. What you can't see is that when I kill all the practical lights but 4 and use my own, the background looking 'in' goes to darkness, looking the otherway it doesn't, but that's ok. I'm using those 2 practicals looking 'out' on the sides as sources for my own lights to backlight them- or at least that's the plan. Sorry to clarify- the really blown out light on the left in the picture is one, there is another on the other side but it's off in the picture. There are 2 other practicals right above the altar, square shaped, if I want ot use can be motivation for soft fill as well.

The table in the centre represents what will be an altar of sorts and the focal point of the room to which 2 actors will pay respects to and talk to each other and move around it eventually. looking toward the exit, the 2 walls will be covered in meaningful stuff and act as other scene-focal points where they talk more. I'm debating using a cool looking practical light that's a big orb looking thing right beside the altar, which could create almost a camp-fire fill (dim/orangy) If I do that, I would not use the overhead practicals.

Also you'll notice the ceiling is metalic-like

another motivation for me to make the room fall to darkness towards the back is that there is a pleather bench that covers the back and sides, and seeing it kind of ruins the feeling of when you can't see the 'edges' of the room looking in that direction. Props, and set design filler stuff is not an option obviously.

finally I guess I should mention I have 2 kickers, 2 of those other ones 'omni' I think it's called and the diva as well as 4x4 foam core, 3x3 collapsible silks x 2 and some gels and diffusion paper, 2 c-stands and some clamps.

Wish me luck! ;)
 
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One possibility here is to make the center table / alter an illuminated source. Make it THE main source for the scene. On your wides you wouldn't need any other source but that single source, the walls would fall off pretty dramatically. Your actors would be under-it ( lit from below ), but it sounds as if such a stylized lighting would work for the script.

On the medium shots / closeup shots you could add just a wee touch of edge light to each actor and also add just a bit of light to the wall behind each actor.

I think you almost have to make the funky carpet a thing in the scene. Seems it will be difficult for you to shoot a fight sequence and never seen the ground. Camera positioned low and shooting up, in this case, might be kinda cool because of the very unique ceiling material.

So, in summary- center table becomes main source. And it is glowing / overexposed, even. Camera is low for all shots- wides and mids, showing metal ceiling pattern.

Use that door of the safe! Shoot heavily from inside the safe looking out to the table. Use the edges of the safe to frame the shot. Each actor facing perpendicular to the door of the safe. When shooting from inside the safe the door edges are on the outer edges of the camera frame. The two actors are "inside" the circle of the door. When shooting towards the door of the safe, the circular shape is between the two actors and makes a visual statement in that direction as well. The two actors are "outside" the circle of the safe door, when looking towards the safe. Use your one strong light ( the work light ) to light the inside of the safe.

Let us know how it goes. Good luck.
 
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good points, I'm definitely using that vault door - no fighting in that room, just in the outside hallway - I'm establishing from the outside, then at some point, crossing the axis, and finishing the other way. "looking out", but most coverage will be dark background.

I like the idea of the altar/table being a primary source, but how? the large orb-style light I mentioned? The 2 squares above would work as well. There will be a large statue on the table, and I'll probably swap out the white cloth w/ black.

2 questions for you - do I have to 'justify' the edge light?

I also NEED to have the walls facing in from the perspective of looking out lit and have those practicals on because they are in scenes to come during the shooting day as another setup. So in that sense they would or could be the edge lit source OR a backlight - I would imagine backlight is more believeable.

I wish I snapped some shots when I killed the lights and used mine, the walls dropping away was totally doable, just not so much as we approach the other direction, but I would plan to shoot tighter and stick to lower angles.

I'll attach the other room now, which I'm thinking I have not many options other than the diva as high as I can going downwards w/ the diaper on it.

Thanks very much for your input - I'm really much more of a director, with dp experience, just not on this scale previously.

DSC_1173.jpgDSC_1185.jpg

The cool thing here is you can see the vault door from inside the room at the right angle.
 
I have to say, that is a crazy interesting location, very unique look and feel. I look forward to seeing some production shots and or clips, if and when you can post. Best of luck on your shoot today!
 
With only $80 to spend, I'd highly recommend you stick with cheap, cheerful, simple tungsten lights. Get a blondie or two and a couple of red heads, then bring bedsheet, shower curtains, whatever fabrics you can get your hands on, with clamps to have some control of the light.

$80 will disappear on a single Flo or LED panel, and get you no closer to a well-lit film. Tungsten and Fabrics are what you want.
 
Agree about using open-face tungstens. Most oomph per $, but bring plenty of stingers, & familiarize yourself with the Breaker Box. In addition to the fabrics Grug suggested also bring blacks.

Look for BTS of Deakin's interiors. Often his Key is a few hard lights (on low stands) bounced into fabric, which is sometimes just taped to the wall, & ceiling, often with a duvatyne Teaser also taped to the ceiling. Just be sure to bring 2" Camera/Pape tape, & a variety of clamps. Also Gaffer Tape, but think twice before applying it to anything that can be easily damaged.

Have a Fire Extinguisher handy, especially as that Vault likely has only one exit.
 
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Grug, Redheaeds and Blondes are not very known or popular in the states, but I know they are standard issue in Australia and the UK. Just for kicks I looked them up on Amazon, wow, 800 watts of tungsten goodness for $39.00 with barndoors! Such a deal. Thanks for prompting me to look those up. I used them in the UK on a shoot a few years ago but I have never seen one on a set here in the US. https://www.amazon.com/Dimmable-Pho...488814635&sr=8-1&keywords=Redhead+video+light
 
Are those the actual brand name lights though? Seems waaaaaay too cheap. I always thought "redhead" and "blonde" were slang terms for one of the major manufacturer's popular frensels (e.g "baby", "junior", "senior").
 
Josh Bass said:
Are those the actual brand name lights though? Seems waaaaaay too cheap. I always thought "redhead" and "blonde" were slang terms for one of the major manufacturer's popular frensels (e.g "baby", "junior", "senior").
Click to expand...

Maybe the ones i linked to are knockoffs? Awful reviews on Amazon.
 
puredrifting said:
Maybe the ones i linked to are knockoffs? Awful reviews on Amazon.
Click to expand...

Glad you mentioned the reviews. Melting dimmer knobs, loose barn doors... I'd be concerned about a fire hazard. I'm always wary of dirt-cheap tungsten heads, especially high-wattage.
 
Josh Bass said:
Are those the actual brand name lights though? Seems waaaaaay too cheap. I always thought "redhead" and "blonde" were slang terms for one of the major manufacturer's popular frensels (e.g "baby", "junior", "senior").
Click to expand...

Ianiro are the original brand. The colour of their 800w/2k lights gave them the redhead/blondie nicknames (I think?). They can be any brand that's either a .8k or 2k open face tungsten.
 
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