lighting, grading, or...?

B

Bruce Watson

Veteran
I'm constantly trying to figure out how things are lit. Everything I watch, from Hollywood blockbusters to TV to youtube vids. Often I get stumped but it doesn't stop me from trying. Here's one that's got me stumped for now: How do some of these TV shows manage to get a look like tungsten (nice orange-y glow to skin tones), but with vivid and saturated blues?

I was flipping channels the other day and came across Hawaii Five-0 (the 2010 version) that does this. The scene was an interior, the direct lights motivated by windows and practicals. The skin tones looked very tungsten, but one character's shirt was this bright and vivid blue -- something I can't seem to get tungsten lighting to do for me. I always thought it was because the tungsten spectrum didn't have enough blue in it. :shocked:

How do they get this look? I guess they could do at least some of this in post by picking on that particular narrow range of hue, saturation, and value for a secondary correction and tweaking it's hue and saturation. But I would think that a TV show's scheduling would put a premium on getting it right in camera, but clearly IDK. Anyone care to clue me in?
 
Bruce Watson said:
I'm constantly trying to figure out how things are lit. Everything I watch, from Hollywood blockbusters to TV to youtube vids. Often I get stumped but it doesn't stop me from trying. Here's one that's got me stumped for now: How do some of these TV shows manage to get a look like tungsten (nice orange-y glow to skin tones), but with vivid and saturated blues?

I was flipping channels the other day and came across Hawaii Five-0 (the 2010 version) that does this. The scene was an interior, the direct lights motivated by windows and practicals. The skin tones looked very tungsten, but one character's shirt was this bright and vivid blue -- something I can't seem to get tungsten lighting to do for me. I always thought it was because the tungsten spectrum didn't have enough blue in it. :shocked:

How do they get this look? I guess they could do at least some of this in post by picking on that particular narrow range of hue, saturation, and value for a secondary correction and tweaking it's hue and saturation. But I would think that a TV show's scheduling would put a premium on getting it right in camera, but clearly IDK. Anyone care to clue me in?
Click to expand...

Since you didn't post any examples, depending, it could be a post effect, which allows for selective effects based on 'color' of the object, to tweak the 'blues' to a bit more saturated, while retain 'reds/yellows' at the same level... or in fact, changing them as well...

Some amount of this can be done 'in camera' as well... as it was done in the olden days...
 
No, not the orange and teal look. This is different. Considerably better I think; at least considerably easier on my eyes. Basically, skin tones look correct for tungsten, while blues (indeed, everything else) look correct for HMIs. Another way to think of it is if they lit with HMIs, then pulled some of the blue out of the skin tones in post.

All of it is a little over saturated for my taste, but that's a color grading decision they get to make.

And yes, I do wish I had a screen grab to post, but I don't. What I saw was from OTA broadcasting, not a DVD/BD or anything I could record.
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
Since you didn't post any examples, depending, it could be a post effect, which allows for selective effects based on 'color' of the object, to tweak the 'blues' to a bit more saturated, while retain 'reds/yellows' at the same level... or in fact, changing them as well...

Some amount of this can be done 'in camera' as well... as it was done in the olden days...
Click to expand...

Maybe this screen grab I found on the 'net will give you an idea of what I'm talking about. The fleshtones and the guy's suit look like what I associate with tungsten lighting, but the flag and the woman's dress (and the rest fo the room) look like what I'd expect from HMIs.

Here's another one. Face looks tungsten to me, but shirt looks HMI.

And here's yet another one. This last one, the light on the face, and the light on the picture in the background don't seem to match.

Or maybe it's just excellent makeup and it's all HMI and daylight flos? Hmmm... hadn't thought of that.
 
art department + lighting + grading = the look? I'm far from a pro on this stuff, but I'll quote Gordon Willis: "people ask how you do it, but it's not one thing you do, its many things" That said tho, it is pretty amazing what can be done with just grading nowadays- changing the entire color of specific objects and such, pretty much total control over the color of everything. It's nuts.
 
I guess everything we see on a big show has been graded. The OrangeTeal look is an exaggeration, still looking out for the skin tones is what everyone does. Pulling keys for faces to get pleasant skin tones will be daily business for all shows. But as said, looking at a whole scene there are more stages involved. Isolating skin tones through set design and lighting will make it easier to correct them in post (if wanted or needed) aso.
 
Skin tones look like good makeup to me, rather than specifically tungsten light.

Have also known DPs to thrown in a 'mix' - for example, lighting the background with HMI/daylight and skin tones with tungsten. Also known DPs to put say, half tungsten tubes and half daylight tubes into a kino.

Could be a number of things.
 
Bruce you need to download a free copy of Davinci and play around with qualifiers which will let you "selectively" bring back skin tones after cooling off an entire image to that HMI bluish white like look, or even "teal" if that's your thing.

Good lighting is a start but *a lot* can happen in the grade too.
 
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Bruce Watson said:
Maybe this screen grab I found on the 'net will give you an idea of what I'm talking about. The fleshtones and the guy's suit look like what I associate with tungsten lighting, but the flag and the woman's dress (and the rest fo the room) look like what I'd expect from HMIs.

Here's another one. Face looks tungsten to me, but shirt looks HMI.

And here's yet another one. This last one, the light on the face, and the light on the picture in the background don't seem to match.

Or maybe it's just excellent makeup and it's all HMI and daylight flos? Hmmm... hadn't thought of that.
Click to expand...

To me, from the first screen grab, it looks like they are using mixed color temp light, but I think the foreground, actor's faces and flags look like they were light with a day light source, white balanced to daylight, with tungsten lighting the background behind the window. In the other two it could be either tungsten or daylight sources and the skin tones are the product of make-up with some color grading thrown in. I wouldn't think that TV shows, with such tight schedules, do extensive grades in post. That is why the hire very good DPs.
 
Depends on the TV show or series. Look at Game of Thrones, they have some intense workflow and they shoot with professional DP's. http://wemovepictures.com/entertainment/game-of-thrones-worldwide-workflow/

I'm by no means saying you can't light a set 5600k and fill using 3200k or with some CTO, conversely with such tight schedules however it could very well be faster and cheaper to achieve looks "in post" than "on set".

Starting to learn Davinci really opened up my eyes to the coloring and grading process and what seemed like an "extensive" grade before is actually quite fast to do. For example using a "qualifier" in Davinci lets you run an eye-dropper over the skin of your subject and very easily allow you to grade the skin tone separately from the rest of the image.

I guess practicing both is the best practice! :cool:
 
Tungsten light is full spectrum light. The blues can be just as saturated, if not more saturated than by HMI light, which burns at daylight color temperature, but is not full spectrum like the sun. I mean, there's plenty examples of vivid blues in old color movies before HMI's existed. :-)
Most of your jpeg examples look like the motivated light from the windows comes from HMIs and the interior light on the actors comes from Kino Flos with daylight balanced tubes.
 
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