lighting for talent in front of projected video tips

[Imaginate]

I have a client that wants a music video done with a band playing live in front of projected video. Its being shot inside a large recording studio and recorded live simultaneously.

They want to create an effect that the band is playing inside a garage , facing an audience inside the garage with their backs to the open door. They have locked off footage of a crowd gathered outside the garagedoor, and want to project that behind the band while they play. They've created a set that looks like the inside of a garage.

Originally I thought greenscreen instead of front projection but then thought that it will all have to be motion tracked with the handheld camera shots.

Which will be harder 1) to properly light and motion track the green screen footage. 2) properly light and expose for front projected video?

Has anyone had any success lighting shots in front of projected video? What were your lighting setups like?

 

[Pickthorne]

If realism is the goal, I wonder if you'll be happy with a projected image standing in for reality. At the very least I think hand-held is out because the outdoor footage will not change in perspective to match the camera moves, and will look two-dimensional.

Then again, maybe that's the look you're going for. The projection aesthetic could be played up, just tell the director it's a Plato cave allegory thing.

But to be clear, I have never tried anything like this. Perhaps someone who has will weigh in.

 

[paulears]

There are a number of issues. Most to do with the projection. Your plan isn't to scale, and doesn't show any height information, so it's very difficult to be accurate. Potential problems will be:
1. Brightness - your lighting levels will need to be controllable.
2. Shadows - faces need front light, the screen hates it. If the band are also holding guitars and moving then also beware reflections that can catch the screen
3. Geometry - if the screen is close, the realism will be lost because, as has been said, camera movement will give it away. If you have an 'opening' and have the screen set back from it, then the sideways camera movement looks better - not real, but the screen seen in shot changes as the screen to opening angle changes. This however means rear projection and a bigger set, but also reduces the reflection and shadow problem.

To make it look good - you will need space and heigh to get the lighting up high enough to miss the screen.

4. Flicker - the video frame rate needs to match the projection, and very often your best effort results in flicker - often only at the corners. Some projectors seem to be worse than others, and a test of the system before shooting is essential. A mock up of the setup is really important to do.

5. - colour. Contrast and colour between the projection and live studio will be different, and this can help or hinder the success - again, you really need to try it out.

My guess is that just performing in front of a hanging screen is not going to look realistic at all, and most of the issues above will frustrate you at every turn. I've done quite a bit of this with actors in front of big screens, and very rarely is it that successful.

Front projection is seriously rubbish! you need so much space between the people and the screen. Draw up a elevation, to scale - and insert a 6ft person, draw a line from your key light at it's working height down to the ground behind the person. That is the closest your screen can be. Measure it, and you'll get a shock how far behind the people the screen needs to be! Probably also using this elevation to work out where the projector can be - within the limits of keystone adjustment - and this may well even need you to make a physical mask to make the 'garage' opening clean. You could easily have to stick the projected video into after effects and do the keystoning to the video, if the angle of dangle has to be very steep - and then this may need the top of the image to be graduated down to make the brightness even.

Screens! Spawn of the devil. My job is frequently to make the video people sort all these issues out - and crazy systems appear, like floor standing mirrors to put a 90 degree bend in the projected beam, and lots of processing - and very often I get asked for a 1 hour break while the re-render. Grrrr!

 

[Bruce Watson]

Yup. All of what Paulears says.

One possible way around much of this is green screen. Gets rid of most of the problems except geometry.

 

[Imaginate]

Here is a test I shot f2.8 at 400iso seemed to work. That was back projection. I think the key is nice soft sources with eggcrates to keep the light off screen, maybe with some fresnels to throw some hard highlights in there.

 

[paulears]

Not sure. Without scale it's difficult, but the side cameras will be looking into the side lights, won't they?, and you have very little front light. Is there space behind the screen for the BP?, otherwise where will the projector go?

 

[Imaginate]

This is a pic of the actual venue. No space for backprojection but the ceiling is high... keystoning would probably be bad but its more of an artistic vibe they are going for rather than a realistic look.

 

[Room39]

EDIT....Looks I'm way late. Maybe I should read the whole thread before posting next time,

We did a series of car commercials using rear projection.
The biggest issues we had were angle to the screen (perspective and contrast changed), proximity of the lights to the screen (washing out the image) and reflections from the vehicle.
But...We were not trying to hide the fact it was a projected image or that it was on a stage. Some of these things we could get away with if they weren't too offensive.
Each vehicle angle required a different lighting setup to highlight lines of the car, some being much more difficult to pull off. You won't really have this issue but the other issues you will if you are shooting from multiple angles.
You may be surprised by how much the image changes just moving the camera a few feet from center. We did a prep day that helped us with a lot of little things we hadn't anticipated.

Good luck.

Here is one of the spots if you are interested. You can see some of the issues I mentioned.