Lighting for a small green screen outdoors

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kat.hayes

Active member
I want to use a collapsible green screen attached to a C Stand outdoors in soft even lighting (around 7:30pm). I will either use an HVX-200 or a Sony FDR-AX100 4K camera.

Will I be able to do this with just natural lighting OR do I need some type of light? The goal is to take the footage into After Effects and key out the subject (baby) and work in the program.

Thanks.
 
7:30 is a bit late even for this time of the year, but at my location (VA) the sunset is at around 8:40 today so I think you can still pull it off. You can use Sun Seeker app to check the sun position at your location, elevation, shadow ratio and even check the 3D view of the sun at your exact location (using the phone camera) at any time of the day. The color temp may be warmer, but that should affect keying.
 
So where you are, the sun is just below the horizon at 7:30pm now?

Definitely worth a try, but I'd have thought you'd get better results (and with less time constraints) filming in the middle of the day somewhere outside with plenty of light but no direct sunlight.
 
You might want to have a couple of those collapsable reflectors, or something like 4x4 white bead board on hand as well as a couple stands to hold them.
 
I do not have the collapsible green screen yet, I was curious to hear if it would even work for what I am trying to do prior to getting it.

I'd like to shoot video of my backyard and then separately shoot video of a baby somehow in front of the green screen under the same natural lighting, key out the green screen in Premiere or After Effects and make the baby move, fly, etc. on a separate layer in the program. I'm hoping it will all look good since it will be based on the same lighting.

Anyone have any suggestions for trying to do this?

Anyone have any suggestions for what to put the baby on? She can sit up, lie down, and stand for brief periods. The green screen will go behind her, though then I have to deal with keying out the ground? I'm guessing the screen will have to go a foot or so behind her to not cast shadows? I'd like to somehow suspend her in air by holding her horizontally to make it seem like she is flying and then keying out the background and my arms, etc. Any suggestions?

Thanks.
 
kat.hayes said:
I want to use a collapsible green screen attached to a C Stand outdoors in soft even lighting (around 7:30pm). I will either use an HVX-200 or a Sony FDR-AX100 4K camera.

Will I be able to do this with just natural lighting OR do I need some type of light? The goal is to take the footage into After Effects and key out the subject (baby) and work in the program.
Click to expand...

Green screen only works when the entire screen looks to be the same color to the camera. That is, the exact same hue and saturation and value, from corner to corner. No wrinkles, no shadows. Ideally it should show a straight horizontal line, the thinner the better, on a waveform monitor.

I suspect that you'll be hard pressed to make this happen at any time of day outside using natural light. Why? Because the sun keeps moving, and as a consequence, the color temperature keeps moving. So the color of the green screen keeps changing. Which makes keying it out a PITA if you can do it at all.

But... maybe you can. Just because my luck trying things like this is usually bad doesn't mean that your luck will be bad. The only way to find out is to try it, and there's not a lot of cost involved in trying it. So go for it. Tell us what you find out.
 
I've done it in bright sunlight with the screen flapping in the breeze. The screen brightness changed constantly. It worked very well. I used Keylight to pull the key.
 
Luck, pure luck! Hoping the software can help you is a big gamble. Consistent colour and no shadows are the big thing. It's possible, but orientation is important if the sun moves and shadows appear. Gold reflectors can be useful for fill on the subject, but my outside keying attempts were ruined by wind, shadows, and the sun. A few years ago I did one very short one that was ok, grey overcast day, and no wind. Gave me false confidence and the next one had all sorts of problems. The flapping was a bit if an issue, but keeping my reflector still took more effort. I don't want to do it again. At that time I was using serious magic green screen which was brilliant, and then adobe took them over. It managed it, but only just.
 
I'm not saying it was skill nor the right way to do things. I'm just countering the strict guidelines being given. Sure, a perfectly lit greenscreen is the right way to do it, but I don't want kat thinking it is not possible to do what s/he wants to do. That's why I advised s/he experiment him/herself. I say it is eminently doable, Only (s)he can decide if it will work for him/her.
 
kat.hayes said:
I do not have the collapsible green screen yet, I was curious to hear if it would even work for what I am trying to do prior to getting it.

I'd like to shoot video of my backyard and then separately shoot video of a baby somehow in front of the green screen under the same natural lighting, key out the green screen in Premiere or After Effects and make the baby move, fly, etc. on a separate layer in the program. I'm hoping it will all look good since it will be based on the same lighting.

Anyone have any suggestions for trying to do this?

Anyone have any suggestions for what to put the baby on? She can sit up, lie down, and stand for brief periods. The green screen will go behind her, though then I have to deal with keying out the ground? I'm guessing the screen will have to go a foot or so behind her to not cast shadows? I'd like to somehow suspend her in air by holding her horizontally to make it seem like she is flying and then keying out the background and my arms, etc. Any suggestions?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

If I were doing this I'd consider several factors
- Requirements for quality
- Avaialble equipment and software
- Keying skills
- Safety (especially when it comes to flying)
- Budget

For highest quality, I'd do all green screen shooting indoor preferably in a studio (with a good green screen and lighting). It's easier to shoot the outdoor footage first and after that match lighting in studio and post. If you want a wide/full shot, a green floor lit appropriately will be needed (in a well equipped studio, all that stuff is available). To avoid cast, I usually place subject at least 10 feet from green. For flying - real one - you will need harness (and later on remove it in post with something like Mocha Pro).

Obviously, all the above may not work for various reasons - costs, software, skills, and I'm not sure I'd use harness on my baby. So, the trick is to find a good compromise between the quality and what's doable practically. For example - green cast. You can easily cheat and shoot the outdoor with a lot of green - grass, trees and bushes. With this approach you can simply ignore the problem completely (I've done this).

The quality of chroma is important. But there is always a possibility to compromise within certain parameters especially if you lower your standards for quality. If you shoot outdoor, wind is probably the most difficult thing to deal with. But there are always days with no wind. Instead of using harness, you can use a flat surface (covered/painted with the same chroma) - it will be less realistic, but almost all concernes about safety can be addressed.

Doing all this in a natural environment is doable, but I'd advise against it as it's more difficult. The only rationale is to match lighting. But it's possible with using a studio which simplifies a lot.
 
Agreed. While I've done outdoor green screen with no issues, I've also shot 'golden hour' background plates and matched it with the indoor green screen. It's not hard.
 
My technique for a green screen exterior shoot is to shoot it without the key light ( sun) falling on it. ie. shoot the shadow side.

For this I use an unlit ( except by ambience) digi-green screen ( whch I never use in studio where I always use Chroma-Green Screens).

Ambient light is generally softer and more even than direct source light and far easier to control exposurewise.

Other reason for shooting this direction is that I can usually also light the subject with the source (controlled sun) from 3/4 back and I just need to use lighting for front/side fill. Smaller units than otherwise.
 
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