Lighting challenge!!

M

mldeff

Member
Okay, I'll give you the equipment and the location - you tell me how you would set it up. The winning submitter gets... the title of DVX Lightmaster!! (alright, I just need help and I'm desperate to get it. But you'll always be the DVX lightmaster in my heart.)

room is two white walls and a window. (I know, makes it tough)

I have two rifa soft boxes (and a reflector, if needed)
There are 2 cameras. 1 straight on and one at a 45 degree angle.

My question is do I light the wall with one of the softboxes to eliminate shadow?
how important is the backlight in the a white walled room.
do i use window light as the key?

I know a lot of this is psecific to what the sun is doing on the day but any thoughts you have would be appreciated.
 
ok so first you need either a cto gel for the window or ctb gels for the lights. then you dont necessarily need a reflector if theres 2 white walls. so you may or may not need a light on the back wall if your subject(s) is close. you could use the window as a key and the wall as a fill light, then you can either light the background or use a reflector for it, and then you can use the 2nd rifa as a hair light. this sounds like an interview setup. am i correct?
 
In all honesty, you've got a perfect storm of circumstances which is going to make life miserable. :) I would strongly suggest finding a different place to shoot, and using only one camera at a time. The white walls are going to be a nightmare lighting environment, and the shots are probably going to be boring even if you get the lighting down. As for the cameras, if you set up a lighting scheme which looks good from one angle, chances are, it's not going to look good from 45 degrees off.

As for background shadows, the best thing to do is either light in such a way that the shadows are out of the frame, or that your subject is blocking the shadow from the camera's view. In both instances, your other, off-axis camera will likely pick up the shadow you're trying hide. And besides, there's no place to hide or obscure a shadow on a white wall. Now, using softboxes, hard shadows are less of a concern, but the further you pull back the lights, the harder the shadows will become.

The window, of course, adds another complication, as mentioned above, as the light from it isn't going to be consistent, and it's going to be a different color temperature from your lights. If you white balance to your lights, the window light will look blue; if you white balance to the window, the light from your lights will look orange. Using gels can help, but you lose a lot of light by doing so -- more with the blue gels.

So, in general, I would say --

Find another place to shoot, with a richer background and less window.

Use a single camera to shoot.

When you set up, have your key at least 45 degrees off-axis from your camera; if you use a reflector as fill, have it at least 45 degrees off from the other direction. A hair light may actually help separate the subject from the background. Whatever you do, point the lights at your subject, not at the ceiling. :)

But do not fall into the trap of chasing down the shadows, as I've said -- find another way to eliminate them. If you absolutely cannot find somewhere else to shoot, and you absolutely cannot find a way to make the background into something other than a white wall (paint it? Bring in large, tall background pieces like Japanese screens, etc.?), pretty much the only thing you've got to separate your actors from your background is the light. If you're chasing down shadows and lighting the background as brightly, or even more brightly, than your subject(s), you're just going to have a flat, awful scene with absolutely no depth or interest to it -- or worse, your background will be more prominent than your subjects.
 
White walls = boring (THX-1138 being the foremost exception). Don't subject your viewers to this! :)

As for shadows, you light from an angle above the talent, so the shadows fall below the talent. A camera that is level at talent eye level won't see the shadows.
 
While white walls are difficult, they're not a deal breaker. However, when you add in the other factors of: a 2 camera shoot, two soft boxes, window and video, it's like you're trying to create the perfect storm for poor lighting. Tell me that the room is also only 6ft x 6ft and you'll win a prize! :)

First question is: What are you trying to accomplish? There's no way I can give lighting suggestions without knowing what your end result is supposed to be. Is this a torture scene from Saw or is it a scene from The Parent Trap? What are you going for in a stylistic sense?

How big are your softboxes? What wattage are your lights? Also, how many people are in the room? Where are they located? What are they doing? Where are the cameras in relation to the window? In relation to your actor(s)? In relation to the walls?

Or is your goal just to light a white room with nothing in it?


Pretending that I know what you're trying to accomplish and that I know what's going on in the room, this is what I'd suggest. You should pull the roman shade over the window to diffuse the light coming in, but only about 2/3rdsof the way down, leaving some space at the bottom for direct sunlight to spill in. Gel the window with 3/4 CTO and roll the bamboo blinds down all the way. The sinlight glowing through the thin bamboo will add a nice wamth to the scene which will go nicely with the wall hangings and the wooden folding screen in the back corner of the room.

Since the actress is sitting at a large oak desk in the middle of the room and is about 5ft away from the window and angled slightly towards it, utilize the soft daylight as her key onto her left cheek and allow the direct sunlight to fall onto the desk. The tree branches outside will add a nice mottled effect here as well, fully selling the warm spring day feeling that you're going for.

Because your camera is on the opposite side of her face, you'll get nice rembrandt lighting on her face. If you need to, you can use the one softbox to help bring her fill-side up a bit.

Pull the softbox off of your other mighty-mole and push it into the back corner just off the left side of the frame. Use it as a backlight / shoulder light to bring up the edges of her brunette hair and her dark black dress.

Well, that's the way I might light it. Hope that helps :beer:
 
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thanks for all your responses.
Its tough because we don't have the budget to rent out a studio and this guy is into the idea of a clean white background behind him. He wants it to look like those mac commercials.
The video is to be embedded in a powerpoint presentation. Its one man talking to a camera (as if to an audience). The second camera is there to pick up some more dynamic angles and close-ups. The guy moves around when he talks but not too much.
I'm prepared to gel the lights to match the sun coming through the window, Or black out the window completely.
thats the concept. I'm considering another locations but if any of you think this can work, it'd save my ass.
Thanks again though for your help.
further thoughts?
 
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If he's looking for that "infinite white" look, then the white walls aren't necessarily a bad thing. I've never personally lit anything like that, but if that's what you're shooting for, then I'd probably black out the window completely so I didn't have to worry about mixed color temps on the subject, then light up the back walls and use the other slight at a 3/4 front angle on him so I'd at least get some kind of definition/texture on his face.

It's likely you'll have enough ambient fill floating around the room so his face won't be too contrasty but won't be completely flat. I'll say again though, my work is all in the realm of narrative so the whole 'corporate' or 'industrial' kind of shooting isn't really my forte. Additionally, if there's any post work that can be done, you can always clip the whites in the background in case you don't get a completely seamless white background.

Good luck with it. :thumbup:
 
this sounds like an interview setup. am i correct?

its more like an industrial guy talks to camera sort of thing.
 
ok since its the infinite background kinda thing he wants that should not be 2 hard. Block out window completely. Then get 2 sets of work lights and blast on the wall behind him(position lights behind subect as a backround light), one on either side, till ur Zebras fill it . Expose for the subject and light him key and fill with ur soft boxes. U will have to decide what kinda ratio for key and fill depending on how contrasty u want the subject. Sometmes i think we kinda get 2 technical with things...when it can be simpler.

Here is a test i did against a white wall using 3 Compact floros (normal ones u buy at the store for your sockets. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzRI2DC6pBo ( watch HD) One is to the right lighting my face and spilling on the wall behind. The other is above my head by default cuz thats where the light is on the wall .The other is to the left pointed at the wall alone.I used a mirror for fill on my face on the left. As u can see its quite contrasty as i wanted, cuz of how i positioned the mirror. U'll see shadow to the left cuz those bulbs are pretty sucky and its an idle test.

This is a video i did using 2 sets of work lights alone. One Set blasting on the background behind subject
on the right hand side the other set i used as key on the subjects. Used foil on a big ass cardboard for fill on the left. Idealy i wud have used the set up i told u to above, but we only had the 2 worklights to work with. Video ...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUf2NAUA0k8 (watch HD)

I was using a background frame with fabric on it. Make sure the fabric has absolutely no creases or it will cast a shadow. I learned the hard way and itt was a ***** to try and get out...which i didnt even get out all of it in post (not so skilled)

The only prob is if he wants a long shot...since ur not in a cyc i think they call it with curved edges then thats a problem. the most u can get here is a medium long shot.

Finally check out this link http://www.digitaljuice.com/djtv/segment_detail.asp?sid=213&sortby=&page=1&kwid=0&show=all_videos
The first part of the video u can use that as a guide...really helpful. they use more lights...but u can improvize with ur 2 softboxes and 2 worklights as i mentioned
 
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i would cto gel the window because the ctb gels will really cut down the intensity of the rifas. if the 2nd camera is just getting stuff like close ups, the shadows may not be really bad
 
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