AndrewTaran
Active member
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Light Craft Workshop Fader ND Digi Pro-HD Filter - NOT RECOMMENDED!
- Thread starter AndrewTaran
- Start date
LCW has yet to make a good fader (I've had the Mark 1 and 2), since they are all soft. As for the green cast, every VND has it. Since I live in Los Angeles by a lot of camera stores, I went on a Fader testing bender last week. I tried Heliopan (2 copies), Fader, Tiffen, Kinko, Hoya and Genus. They ALL have the exact same green cast. It was uncanny really. When I looked at my test shots, I could not tell one apart from the other when it came to the color cast.
Sharpness was a big difference though. Heliopan and Kinko were both really sharp. I have the Heliopan, but I actually liked the Kinko better since it's much thinner. Genus and LCW are soft as a baby's bottom.
Sharpness was a big difference though. Heliopan and Kinko were both really sharp. I have the Heliopan, but I actually liked the Kinko better since it's much thinner. Genus and LCW are soft as a baby's bottom.
In all honesty, the green cast isn't a huge deal. Of course it's not ideal, especially for a $400 VND filter, but the green is very easily adjusted away in post. The huge amounts of time you save with a VND in Run and Gun situations, out weights the slight green cast. It's just so nice to quickly turn the filter and get perfect exposure as opposed to fiddling with the Iris and the ISO when you need to work ultra fast.
I still cannot get over how all the samples I tried from cheap to expensive had nearly the exact same green cast. Really weird.
I still cannot get over how all the samples I tried from cheap to expensive had nearly the exact same green cast. Really weird.
alaskacameradude
Veteran
It actually says right in the FS100 manual, that when you use an ND filter of ANY type (slide in flat, screw on or variable ND) to make sure
to re white balance with the filter on! If you do that with the Heliopan, it looks the same as if you white balance on the same scene without
the filter. But if you are using auto or just dialing a color temperature number in K, it may have the green color cast, I've only tested
with white balancing both with and without the Heliopan on, and of course sharpness on a telephoto.
On a side note, when I use one of my lenses, it has a much more green 'bias' than any of my other lenses.
to re white balance with the filter on! If you do that with the Heliopan, it looks the same as if you white balance on the same scene without
the filter. But if you are using auto or just dialing a color temperature number in K, it may have the green color cast, I've only tested
with white balancing both with and without the Heliopan on, and of course sharpness on a telephoto.
On a side note, when I use one of my lenses, it has a much more green 'bias' than any of my other lenses.
paulcurtis
Veteran
Is that the cinematics matte box?
I was considering grabbing one of those, how is it? Also more importantly how heavy is it?
Sorry for the thread hijack, but as mentioned later on the softness is probably the bigger issue. But seeing as these things are basically polarisers how does that affect reflections and even skin tones?
cheers
paul
Alpha Beta Omega
Veteran
I got the Kenko NDX and it is very sharp at both wide and tele.
alaskacameradude
Veteran
The heliopan is sharp....most of the others are not (ok, the cheaper ones are not in general, but I've heard good things about the Kenko,
the Singh Ray, and the Tiffin variable ND's as well. The cheaper Genus, and Lightcraftand so on seem to go a bit soft at the telephoto end
of lenses.) I don't have a problem with skin tones (well not any MORE of a problem with the heliopan than I do in general getting the
somewhat fiddly color settings dialed in on the FS100), but the reflections DO happen.....the 'green ghost' can make an appearance when
using the heliopan if you aren't careful. I don't use a mattebox ever, so I decided to go with the best variable ND I could find at the time.
I'm really happy with it, but there ARE things to watch for. Of course, even with a mattebox and slide in filters, the 'green ghost' will put
in an appearance if you don't watch carefully.
the Singh Ray, and the Tiffin variable ND's as well. The cheaper Genus, and Lightcraftand so on seem to go a bit soft at the telephoto end
of lenses.) I don't have a problem with skin tones (well not any MORE of a problem with the heliopan than I do in general getting the
somewhat fiddly color settings dialed in on the FS100), but the reflections DO happen.....the 'green ghost' can make an appearance when
using the heliopan if you aren't careful. I don't use a mattebox ever, so I decided to go with the best variable ND I could find at the time.
I'm really happy with it, but there ARE things to watch for. Of course, even with a mattebox and slide in filters, the 'green ghost' will put
in an appearance if you don't watch carefully.
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ed_lee83
Well-known member
cineTACTICS! Love that brand name.
http://www.cinetactics.com/-strse-15/Matteblox-HD/Detail.bok
Your keep your 4x4 ND's (I use Schneider) in these small pockets and attach them via velcro. If I'm shooting solo, it'd take me about 5 seconds to change ND - still trying to be faster!
http://www.cinetactics.com/-strse-15/Matteblox-HD/Detail.bok
Your keep your 4x4 ND's (I use Schneider) in these small pockets and attach them via velcro. If I'm shooting solo, it'd take me about 5 seconds to change ND - still trying to be faster!
joy new media
Active member
I have the Singh-Ray and its much nicer than the LCW (though I didn't have the newer one), very sharp and I don't get the cross-hatch X. Its a tough pill to swallow cost wise, but vari-ND's are so handy for run-and-gun shooting I can't shoot without one.
frankkinen
Member
I have both the LCW FaderND Mk II and the newer LCW FaderND Pro HD version. My observations are related to using these on documentary shoots; run & gun and sitdown interviews with lighting.
-Regarding sharpness: the FS100:s sensor produces such a sharp, crisp, clean "super-HD" kind of image, that the slight sharpness loss can be more of a bonus in my opinion. When someones uses subjective and over-the-top phrases like "soft as a babies bottom" I feel that a lot of people that have no experience with varaiable ND-filters will think the image will seem almost out of focus or blurry. THIS IS NOT THE CASE. My experiences with sharpness on LCW ND products are very positive. Have never compared to other brands though...
-Green color cast: Not a problem for me so far, but my footage is always color graded before delivery. OBSERVE: the image is not green like a botanical garden! The problem is subtle, and fixable in post.
-Light reflections: when a strong direct light source(the sun, bright lights etc.) is shining in to the lens and on the sensor, through a variable ND, the sensor picks up optical reflections from the variable ND. These reflections can sometimes be ugly(I guess it also depends on the lens...) so remember this while shooting. Generally I am able to work around this issue, I do not feel it is a dealbreaker for me at least.
As stated earlier I have never tried other brands of variable ND filters. But that is because I have never felt the need to. The newer LCW Pro HD version is better built and has a nice lever for adjusting. Optically its also an upgrade from the FaderND MK II, but the MK II has served me well(and continues to).
Strong, and sometimes absurd, statements like "soft as a babies bottom" or a general "this equipment is ****" etc. need to be presented within a context of what the poster wants to achieve artistically and technically. This forum is a resource for experienced users as well as beginners, so let us use some restraint when sharing our opinions. Most equipment has its flaws, be it lower quality or high price etc.
Working with a variable ND has changed the way I think about shooting. They are sometimes a real hassle, but in my work I don't know if I even want to go back to using built in NDs, or a mattebox for that matter. Maybe I'll change my mind when I try out the FS700, you never know.
Peace.
-Regarding sharpness: the FS100:s sensor produces such a sharp, crisp, clean "super-HD" kind of image, that the slight sharpness loss can be more of a bonus in my opinion. When someones uses subjective and over-the-top phrases like "soft as a babies bottom" I feel that a lot of people that have no experience with varaiable ND-filters will think the image will seem almost out of focus or blurry. THIS IS NOT THE CASE. My experiences with sharpness on LCW ND products are very positive. Have never compared to other brands though...
-Green color cast: Not a problem for me so far, but my footage is always color graded before delivery. OBSERVE: the image is not green like a botanical garden! The problem is subtle, and fixable in post.
-Light reflections: when a strong direct light source(the sun, bright lights etc.) is shining in to the lens and on the sensor, through a variable ND, the sensor picks up optical reflections from the variable ND. These reflections can sometimes be ugly(I guess it also depends on the lens...) so remember this while shooting. Generally I am able to work around this issue, I do not feel it is a dealbreaker for me at least.
As stated earlier I have never tried other brands of variable ND filters. But that is because I have never felt the need to. The newer LCW Pro HD version is better built and has a nice lever for adjusting. Optically its also an upgrade from the FaderND MK II, but the MK II has served me well(and continues to).
Strong, and sometimes absurd, statements like "soft as a babies bottom" or a general "this equipment is ****" etc. need to be presented within a context of what the poster wants to achieve artistically and technically. This forum is a resource for experienced users as well as beginners, so let us use some restraint when sharing our opinions. Most equipment has its flaws, be it lower quality or high price etc.
Working with a variable ND has changed the way I think about shooting. They are sometimes a real hassle, but in my work I don't know if I even want to go back to using built in NDs, or a mattebox for that matter. Maybe I'll change my mind when I try out the FS700, you never know.
Peace.
AndrewTaran
Active member
.
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Nirv
Carbonite Member
The Heliopan is sharp as a tack.
My Genus was a disaster with anything over 85mm and at 200mm on the kit lens just gave double vision. The Heliopan is about 3x more expensive than the Genus and is worth every penny IMHO. Although I did buy mine second hand at about half price...So that's was a bargain for me.
A consistent colour cast is a non-issue and can be easily calibrated out with a PP or a preset colour correction in your favourite NLE of choice. It's when you use something like the Genus, which also acted as a variable white balance adjuster, that things become problematic.
@ Frankkinen. The LCW Faders are very soft at 200mm focal length. I know because I've had the V1 and the V2 (unfortunately) and I definitely pixel peeped it on a Canon 70-200mm lens. Take a look at this pic shot at 200mm. The LCW is about the SAME sharpness as the Genus (which is not sharp at all).
Since the LCW Pro HD Version costs over $300, I would expect it to be sharp.
Personally, I'd rather have the image sharp out of the camera. If you really want it softer, just add a tiny bit of blur in After Effects. It's much easier to soften in post then it is to sharpen in post.
Since the LCW Pro HD Version costs over $300, I would expect it to be sharp.
Personally, I'd rather have the image sharp out of the camera. If you really want it softer, just add a tiny bit of blur in After Effects. It's much easier to soften in post then it is to sharpen in post.
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frankkinen
Member
Regarding softness at longer focal lengths: this has been established since the advent of the vari-ND filters for video use. Some say they would not shoot with certain(most, maybe not the Heliopan?) brands vari-NDs at focal lenths above 100mm, others advice against going over 70mm. In my earlier post I forgot to mention this fact. I rarely shoot beyond 105mm, for which the LCW filters work well in my view. At longer focal lengths it is a problem I guess. On the FS100 kit lens I have used LCW fader ND mk II at 200mm a few times and was happy with the result. But that's just me.
On run&gun shoots I recommend attaching the vari-ND to the lens with the Xume magnetic filter rings. Makes relocating outdoor/indoor, or changing lenses, much faster and easier.
Good luck to you all!
On run&gun shoots I recommend attaching the vari-ND to the lens with the Xume magnetic filter rings. Makes relocating outdoor/indoor, or changing lenses, much faster and easier.
Good luck to you all!
I use the Heliopan vari ND, and I struggle with the "green ghosts". You can avoid it by trying a different angle, that is IF you notice the ghosting going on, many times you notice it in post when its to late!
I would love to hear how people remove the green cast in post the best way? I simply use the fast color corrector in Premiere and drag the footage a bit to the orange/red side until it looks natural... But something tells me that there are better ways...
I would love to hear how people remove the green cast in post the best way? I simply use the fast color corrector in Premiere and drag the footage a bit to the orange/red side until it looks natural... But something tells me that there are better ways...