Letus Relay vs Cinevate Relay

I

Indyreel

Well-known member
Which is better?

Obviously the price difference should tell the tale. But I wonder if 6k is justified in this case.

Any input?
 
Just the fact that the Cinevate can zoom to fill whatever frame your different lenses cover renders it a moot point, IMO.
 
mcgeedigital said:
Just the fact that the Cinevate can zoom to fill whatever frame your different lenses cover renders it a moot point, IMO.
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Depends on priorities. There are three different relays, Letus B4 Compact, B4 Pro, and Cinevate.

Letus B4 Compact has a much smaller form factor than the other two, f1.8, $3500.
Short length, light weight and optimized for Letus adapters may be important to many.

B4 Pro is longer, like Cinevate, but very fast, f1.5, better wide open for sharpness and contrast than B4 Compact, $6000.

Don't know how they work with other brand adapters.

Cinevate has zoom capacity for field of view flexibility, larger than B4 Compact, not as fast as B4 Pro, $2500? Don't know if it will work with other brand adapters.

I've been testing both Letus relays, haven't seen the Cinevate. Most high end shoots using 2/3" cameras will use PL-mount Cine lenses with Academy framing, so 35mm SLR field of view not as much of a priority. Letus relays crop 18% less than P+S Pro35.

I did a shoot with the B4 Pro and our Ultimate last Friday in a studio. I never had to open up the relay beyond f2.8 and lenses were at f2.8-f4.0. Key light was an Arri 2K open with Chimera Lightbank/fabric grid. Camera was an HDX900 at -3db, shutter at 1/40-1/48th, 1080/24p. I would have needed more light with a Pro35 or opened up the taking lens and adapter/relay iris all the way.

We need to compare the Letus B4 relay models to the Cinevate and Pro35, side by side. I'm trying to coordinate that, so is Joseph Stunzi.
 
Price should not be used as a deciding factor simply because our relay is priced well below where convention says it should be. This is more a factor of direct web based sales and our desire to put cool stuff in shooters hands at a fair price.

The new Zeiss PL mount compact primes (we've got the 85mm in use on our HPX500/B4 relay being shown at NAB) are an important announcement for us becasue although they are PL mount cine lenses...they project a full SLR frame! This means with our B4 relay you get about 45% wider usable FOV than any other relay on the planet..at any price :-)
 
Sorry guys, I can't help it... but "on the planet at any price"... very bold statement... no offense Dennis, you know that am a value adder to Brevis... but hold your breath...
 
If you go by features the Cinevate sounds fabulous let alone price.
But until we see good examples from them all then who knows how they actually perform.
Then there is the iussue of which adapter they mate with. Do you want a Brevis or a Letus?

The letus apparently won't mate up with others.
If the cinevate will that's another huge design plus.

Dino and I plan to do some Letus vs Pro 35 tests but unfortunately don't have the Cinevate.

Lenny Levy
 
Dennis Wood;1614634]Price should not be used as a deciding factor simply because our relay is priced well below where convention says it should be. This is more a factor of direct web based sales and our desire to put cool stuff in shooters hands at a fair price.
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Dennis,

I absolutely agree. My statement was obviously "loaded" so as to provoke a response from both manufacturers. I have checked out both relays online and they look very impressive. But I'm still trying to figure out why the Letus is so much more.
 
I'd love to see the MotionFX relay, Letus relay and Brevis relay in a side by side, does any one know the coverage of the MotionFX relay ?

Edit:

Just read the FAQ over at MotionFX

"
Q. What is the image area that is covered on the ground glass?
A. With the new design it is switchable for Super 35 24mm x 13.5mm as well as 36mm x 24mm.
"

 
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Our zooming relay has the flexibiltity of maximizing FOV at anything between cine and SLR formats...which is also important when looking at using the same relay for 1/2 CMOS like the EX3. Having a flip in element to make the format switchable is great, but does not have the flexibitly of a multi-format zoom. We shot some pretty amazing footage out at
Red Rock Canyon this week...more to come :-)

Lenny, there is no reason I can predict that would suggest our relay won't work with other adapters. The single largest problem I would predict is that no other manufacturer is geared for interchangeable elements that integrate aspheric optics. This means that when you swap in one of our CINEFUSE imaging elements, you're swapping in a diffusion and optics package...not just another spinning disc. If you look at the optical path of a B4 2/3" package, my guess is that an adapter that does not allow swapping in condensor lenses, will not perform as well when it comes to edge to edge illumination. This is the reason we have continually developed our imaging elements as the rest of the system (and host cameras) have changed.
 
Dennis, Tell me if I'm interpreting what you said correctly -
Your tests with the relay have been done with a Brevis of course and the CINEFUSE screens incorporate some optical properties as well as diffusion properties that are designed to adapt to different lenses and video camera combinations. Since other adapter makers don't seem to be designing in this way ( and of course spinners couldn't) you can't be sure how much of the performance of the Cinevate Relay would be transferable to an adapter with "simpler" diffusion screen designs.

If I got that correct, it makes sense to me and we won't really know until somebody is able to test the Cinevate relay with a Letus, SG, G35 or whatever. I'm hopeful though.

Lenny
 
It's been a while now, and I've yet to see footage from these new relays. The question still remains. Which one is better?

Does anyone have any new info regarding these potentially awesome products?
 
Yes, I also would like to see footage from these products. I´ve seen few shots from the Letus and a few more from the greek relay, and I wouldn´t underestimate these people work (sorry I don´t remember the name of the company). I understand that Cinevate is still tweaking the relay, and I think is smart to take the time they need to deliver the best product they can.

Anyways, I always thought that the companies don´t put enough effort on shooting real tests. They always shoot a few things day and outdoors. Is very rare to find a company that does professional tests, and that´s simply lame (Cinevate shot charts I think, but still I don´t think it´s enough). Instead of wasting money sending a lot of beta products, hire a very good experienced DP that provides every test scene once you have the product ready. Then, sale your product providing freely all the information and results.

If you want to be professional, act like one.
 
mcgeedigital said:
That is obtuse and disrespectful. :huh:
Click to expand...

Why? I´m not an obtuse person and generally speaking I have a very open mind. And I´m not trying to be disrespectful with anyone.

Actually, to do the kind of tests that I´m asking for is the minimum that we can ask for. We are not talking about DIY here anymore. We are talking about companies, that are small yes, but that have the elements enough to develop not simple 35mm adapters but relay lenses. I´m really happy for all the people that have been peeling their asses to get to that point, but dude, once you get there you have to be a pro.

If you are developing a product that costs several thousand dollars (and I´m really cool with that), invest in proper testing and show it to the world. To do this, is not a PLUS anymore... it´s a must.

I´m not the only one here that would like to see what I´m saying. Actually, I think that even you would like that as a potential customer.
 
Of course I would and will welcome tests of both adapters.

But to call two manufacturers, and dvxuser SPONSORS "unprofessional" because they don't do what YOU want them to do shows a distinct lack of class.
 
killamill said:
I understand that Cinevate is still tweaking the relay, and I think is smart to take the time they need to deliver the best product they can.
Click to expand...

I didn't know that. What about the letus relay? Are they tweaking, as I have not seen any footage from them either?
 
Lenny Levy and I have just completed some testing of the Letus B4 Pro relay A-B'd against a P+S Pro35. However, the two Letus models I've been testing are prototypes, so until we test production models, our results wouldn't be valid. Our tests used a Nikon on the B4 Pro/Ultimate combo vs. a Zeiss Super Speed with the Pro35. We didn't have two of the same focal length Zeiss Super Speeds, and I was interested in comparing the Letus combo with Nikon primes, vs. Pro35 with Zeiss SS, as these were the most likely configuration for the two setups. See below for links to screen grabs, but again, testing is flawed due to prototype vs. production models and two different brand lenses.

We expect to get Evangelos' relay and fiber screen installed in a Brevis for testing by the end of the month or so. Dennis at Cinevate has not responded to Lenny's or my emails requesting a demo of the Cinevate variable relay lens, his last post stated he was tweaking and it would be 8 weeks.

http://www.exposureroom.com/PSZchart
http://www.exposureroom.com/b4Prochart
http://www.exposureroom.com/PSZLenny
http://www.exposureroom.com/b4ProLenny
 
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