Leo Ticheli video version comparison: FCP Save as Quicktime vs Quicktime Conversion

M

Mike@AF

Veteran
Let's not talk about noise at all.

I finally got to download both version of the video: the FCP Save as Quicktime and the Quicktime Conversion versions. Few interesting things I noticed:

1. QT Conversion version doesn't seem to exhibit the gamma bug in Quicktime. I tested this in QT Player X and QT Player Pro 7. QTPX shows the FCP Save as Quicktime version brighter than the QTC version. QTPP7 does the same thing if I turn off the Enable FCP Compatibility. If I turn on the FCP Compatibility then the FCP Save as Quicktime version is brighter than the QTC version, just like in QTPX (which doesn't have the FCP Compatibility option.

2. The color temperature appears different between the two. My personal preference is the QTC version, as the FCP Save as Quicktime version seems to have too much green and yellow in it. I find these differences interesting and need to do some experimenting and testing as I've never used the Quicktime Conversion option before.

3. The QTC version is a slightly lower resolution than the FCP Save as Quicktime version. I'm curious as to why this is.

Anyone have any thoughts on any of this?
 
Usually it's safe to work with RGB levels (0-255) all the way through with DSLR cameras so maybe this is also true for MTS files. Often 0-255 vs 16-235 can get mixed up when converting and you end up with raised or lowered levels.
 
editman said:
Usually it's safe to work with RGB levels (0-255) all the way through with DSLR cameras so maybe this is also true for MTS files. Often 0-255 vs 16-235 can get mixed up when converting and you end up with raised or lowered levels.
Click to expand...

That says nothing about those two methods of outputting a FCP project, unless you're saying one method is 0-255 and the other is 16-235.
 
I find it amazing that the Mac platform is still plagued by errors like this. I know Final Cut has been neglected by Apple for some time now, but how about other programs on Mac OS? Is the Mac version of Adobe Premiere OK?
 
It must be a coincidence but I just answered this same thing in another thread.
For best results from FCP choose File > export quicktime movie
This will export your movie at whatever codec / frame rate that you've set your sequence to be.
Words from the esteemed fcp guru Larry Jordan
"Never choose export with quicktime conversion, FCP is a great editor but a lousy compressor, use the application Compressor for that."

Now you only have to worry about getting your sequence settings correct and that you have ingested your source footage correctly.
 
J Davis said:
It must be a coincidence but I just answered this same thing in another thread.
For best results from FCP choose File > export quicktime movie
This will export your movie at whatever codec / frame rate that you've set your sequence to be.
Words from the esteemed fcp guru Larry Jordan
"Never choose export with quicktime conversion, FCP is a great editor but a lousy compressor, use the application Compressor for that."

Now you only have to worry about getting your sequence settings correct and that you have ingested your source footage correctly.
Click to expand...

Does this include the Share menu as a good way to export? I've been using it with little/no issue. I believe Share menu works through Compressor without bringing it up.
 
Lyris said:
I find it amazing that the Mac platform is still plagued by errors like this. I know Final Cut has been neglected by Apple for some time now, but how about other programs on Mac OS? Is the Mac version of Adobe Premiere OK?
Click to expand...

Incorrect statment here. The news is that they are working on a new update to finally go 64 bit and allow for native codec editing without conversion to quicktime... atleast that's the rumor. I think that each release you get with FCP is leaps and bounds better than anything else out there, and that's why there are over a million licensed versions and how many other pirated versions...

I for one am hoping to get a FCP 64 bit version sooner rather than later.
 
Justyn said:
Incorrect statment here. The news is that they are working on a new update to finally go 64 bit and allow for native codec editing without conversion to quicktime... atleast that's the rumor. I think that each release you get with FCP is leaps and bounds better than anything else out there, and that's why there are over a million licensed versions and how many other pirated versions...

I for one am hoping to get a FCP 64 bit version sooner rather than later.
Click to expand...
There was a email someone received back from Steve Jobs saying there will be an announcement early next year. I'm hoping for a January unveil... When is NAB?
 
April 9-14. Reading the tea-leaves of Jobs' missive, I have to think he'll at least take the wraps off in January. I don't recall him ever even dropping hints unless the public unveil was in fairly close order.
 
FCP Gamma shift

FCP Gamma shift

In our shop, we're mostly Avid but have a FCP system for some of our clients that demand FCP for their projects. I've noticed that some of the projects that come off the the FCP system and get loaded on the Avid do have gamma shift. The gamma gets lifted. It's a strange phenominon that I always racked up to the way QT compresses the media. I'm by no means a FCP guru and no one has been able to answer why this happens. I've been told by a colorist that the QT animation preset codec should be used for everything but I've had the best luck with ProRes 422. Things were so much easier when everyone was using DVCPro.....those were the days.
 
animation is 8 bit, all prores is 10 bit. prores 4444 will give 10 bit plus alpha
and it can be Y Cb Cr Alpha or RGB alpha
gamma shift happens with quicktime 7 vs quicktime x. Ditch quicktime x and install quicktime 7
from utility disk. Then open quicktime 7 prefs and select 'use FCP gamma'.
Be careful when using prores 4444 as there is an option within the codec to have auto gamma correction
(wtf ? go figure? ) make sure this is unchecked, default is checked
Doing all of the above will minimize gamma shifts but they are still there. Quicktime gamma sucks
 
Thanks J. Never knew that. I think that system has the AJA recommended versions of QT on it to work with the Kona. I'll gi.ve it a try. Thanks for explaining.
 
Interesting. Yeah, I usually export right out of FCP to Quicktime, not Quicktime conversion. But, I use Quicktime Pro 7 to re-encode for vimeo / facebook / youtube. I use the mp4, and push it as far as I can in the data rate. Vimeo for example only lets you shoot up a 1GB file, so I push the Data rate and watch the estimated file size thing and put it about 500mb below the GB limit. Anyway, I have noticed that my mp4's Blacks are more crushed and filmic looking. I never really dug into why, but yeah, I do notice a difference.

So here is another question. Does Compressor use the same process's as QT? I know it's QT based, but what about the process?

B.p
 
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J Davis said:
It must be a coincidence but I just answered this same thing in another thread.
For best results from FCP choose File > export quicktime movie
This will export your movie at whatever codec / frame rate that you've set your sequence to be.
Words from the esteemed fcp guru Larry Jordan
"Never choose export with quicktime conversion, FCP is a great editor but a lousy compressor, use the application Compressor for that."

Now you only have to worry about getting your sequence settings correct and that you have ingested your source footage correctly.
Click to expand...

I've always used the Export as Quicktime Movie myself, but when comparing the two versions of this video I noticed the Quicktime Conversion version didn't have the gamma shift at all. How is that possible?
 
TheReverend said:
Does this include the Share menu as a good way to export? I've been using it with little/no issue. I believe Share menu works through Compressor without bringing it up.
Click to expand...

The Share feature in FCP uses Compressor without needing to leave FCP - you can keep right on editing. Ken Stone has a pretty good explanation of this feature and it's pretty slick. Surprising more folks don't use it. I don't think many understand what it can do, or are even aware of it.

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/fcp_7_share_stone.html
 
tflak said:
The Share feature in FCP uses Compressor without needing to leave FCP - you can keep right on editing. Ken Stone has a pretty good explanation of this feature and it's pretty slick. Surprising more folks don't use it. I don't think many understand what it can do, or are even aware of it.

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/fcp_7_share_stone.html
Click to expand...

I would use it, but it blows up if you're using a QMaster cluster with more than 1 core. (It only works if you're distributing to multiple machines with one core each.) The official explanation is that the share is locked to the old 32 bit architecture and can't handle multicores, and it'll only be fixed when they revise the architecture for 64-bit throughout the program. (Which is, supposedly, the key feature of FCP 8, but we'll see.)

Until they get that resolved, have to go through Compressor directly.
 
impressive creations said:
Interesting. Yeah, I usually export right out of FCP to Quicktime, not Quicktime conversion. But, I use Quicktime Pro 7 to re-encode for vimeo / facebook / youtube. I use the mp4, and push it as far as I can in the data rate. Vimeo for example only lets you shoot up a 1GB file, so I push the Data rate and watch the estimated file size thing and put it about 500mb below the GB limit. Anyway, I have noticed that my mp4's Blacks are more crushed and filmic looking. I never really dug into why, but yeah, I do notice a difference.
Click to expand...

Download the Vimeo Desktop Uploader and use that. It allows 2GB uploads and can batch upload as well. It's the only way I upload to Vimeo now. It's beta, but I haven't had any issues at all.


impressive creations said:
So here is another question. Does Compressor use the same process's as QT? I know it's QT based, but what about the process?
Click to expand...

I just did a test using Compressor to output an H.264 from both versions of the video. I think I've determined that Compressor uses the same render engine as the Export as Quicktime Movie. Both H.264 versions I output in Compressor had the gamma shift. Apple needs to fix it.
 
Mike@AF said:
Download the Vimeo Desktop Uploader and use that. It allows 2GB uploads and can batch upload as well. It's the only way I upload to Vimeo now. It's beta, but I haven't had any issues at all.
Click to expand...

Really? 2GB? I'm on it. Yeah, I have downloaded it but never use it. I will try it out! Thanks!
 
DimitriL said:
I would use it, but it blows up if you're using a QMaster cluster with more than 1 core. (It only works if you're distributing to multiple machines with one core each.) The official explanation is that the share is locked to the old 32 bit architecture and can't handle multicores, and it'll only be fixed when they revise the architecture for 64-bit throughout the program. (Which is, supposedly, the key feature of FCP 8, but we'll see.)

Until they get that resolved, have to go through Compressor directly.
Click to expand...

This is true and very annoying. You can turn off your Qmaster Cluster (System Preference/Qmaster/click on Stop Sharing) and it should work though.
 
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