FS7: Lenses, a few years ago I sold my 35mm prime lenses, buy them back or not???

P

Publimix

Veteran
I had some nice zuiko Lenses 55mm 1.2 and 90mm f2.0 sharp and very very good.

Now I own the fs7, and with some adapters all kinds of lenses are possible. Nikkor 300mm f4.5 Canon 200mm f2.8 both good lenses for 150 euro per pair.

The basic Iso of the fs7 is so high and the shutterspeed so low that nobody needs fast lenses.

But I miss:
autofocus
lens metadata
auto-iris
speed

Do I realy need fast autofocusirislenses?

I like your opinion and suggestions
 
For the next few months I will like the metadata from the lenses, after that, when I am used to the camera, I don't.
I like my MF canon 2.8 200 mm lens for 60 euro and nikkor 300mm 4.0 for 90 euro.
They are even better than the sony 18-105 lens I have, because focusing this lens manually is al lot more unpredictable.
But having the metadata from the lenses is sometimes useful.

Peter Bosman
Former cheese professional
 
I collected a great set of Nikkor AIS Primes all F2 or less and in a moment of madness I sold the lot because they were not being used on my FS100. I couldn't see into the future and think we'd be getting a FS7 level camera which they would've been perfect for.

I am a hack and my philosophy with lenses is to have a mix for different shooting conditions and client requirements. A good wide auto zoom like the 16-70 plus a selection of 30 year old manual glass if you want a bit more character in the image. I like the Nikkor 35-135, nice and detailed but not clinically sharp.

I was joking in the other thread about putting the 43-86 nikkor on the FS7 but being the worst lens Nikkor have ever made might just be useful for that dream sequence you need to shoot. Lens look is something you can't really replicate in post.

You do need fast lenses to give you a reasonably shallow DoF but you don't have to go crazy with see in the dark lenses like some hoorays.
 
The FS7 is a great camera but the next challenge is to make a camera that all modi (and in autoexposure) should give always 100% good and stunning image.

Now the advice is:
autoexposure don't use it
autofocus don't use it
auto iris don't use it
too much dynamic range in your image? use filters or wait for the golden hour
want great dynamic range? possible but not easy
And this advice is right because most people can do this better than the little brain inside the Fs7

I know a camera operator should have enough craftsmanship to work around the flaws of the camera, but that is not an excuse not to make camera's easier or better.
I am not a cameraman, I cannot (and surely will not) be hired by anyone, but I use the camera as a tool to make nice images.

Anyway, until now the learning is fun, cost a lot of time and practising. (And this is of course no new discussion and will not stop until the revolutionary FS12, (see sonyrumors march 2023 ).
And again, the feel of a smooth focus lens is nice.
 
Well, I'd begin by learning how to understand the monitoring tools the camera provides i.e. the waveforms and histograms.

If you are a beginner maybe start out with standard and hypergamma profiles and leave Log space until you're more confident.

The FS7 is a very capable tool but it is not a beginner's tool and does require a level of competence to get the best from it, keep things simple and build upon your knowledge.

You'll always find situations where there is too much dynamics range for the camera to cope with, you have to decide which is most important to the viewer, i.e under expose blacks or allow the whites to blow and you'll make that choice better than an auto exposure algorithm.

Autofocus - use it if you have it not in continual focus mode but push auto is great for quickly getting your subject in focus. It's better to get the shot in focus than be a hooray and come back with a load of OOF crap because you were intent on manually focussing. There's a lot of consumer camera assist tools that so called pros use or would like to. Much more could be done to semi automate focus and in that regard the moving image world is lagging behind stills by years.

It is just practice and understanding how your camera "sees" the world and adapting to it.
 
Yeah you are right of course, but wouldn't it be great if all the auto functions were just really good?
In other words good enough for a professional cameraman? Now they are not.
 
I mainly use a 35-70 3.5 and certainly have to switch to faster primes often.

Generally we build set of some quick to use zooms and some primes.

I dont buy exotica (faster than F2) because they are not really focus-able and are overpriced because the idiot brigade chase them so hard.

S
 
Publimix said:
Yeah you are right of course, but wouldn't it be great if all the auto functions were just really good?
In other words good enough for a professional cameraman? Now they are not.
Click to expand...

I think there's a real argument for "intelligent" focus assist for Pro level cameras as things like face detection and tracking are actually very useful especially for pulling focus on a tracking shot.

It didn't take long for the stills photographers drop manually focussed lenses like hot turds when the value of auto focus became apparent. I refuse to believe a similar revolution could not come to moving image production.
 
Completely agree - it is a pull on the C300ii - the only thing it has on the FS7.

I was part of the crowd who dropped MF like a shot in stills - I was doing a lot of sport in the 1990s and we just went from 90% soft to 80% sharp.

S
 
If AF ever advances to the level of a competent focus puller, I don't think professionals will hesitate for a moment to at least try it out.
 
Publimix said:
The FS7 is a great camera but the next challenge is to make a camera that all modi (and in autoexposure) should give always 100% good and stunning image.

Now the advice is:
autoexposure don't use it
autofocus don't use it
auto iris don't use it
too much dynamic range in your image? use filters or wait for the golden hour
want great dynamic range? possible but not easy
And this advice is right because most people can do this better than the little brain inside the Fs7

I know a camera operator should have enough craftsmanship to work around the flaws of the camera, but that is not an excuse not to make camera's easier or better.
I am not a cameraman, I cannot (and surely will not) be hired by anyone, but I use the camera as a tool to make nice images.

Anyway, until now the learning is fun, cost a lot of time and practising. (And this is of course no new discussion and will not stop until the revolutionary FS12, (see sonyrumors march 2023 ).
And again, the feel of a smooth focus lens is nice.
Click to expand...


They are not flaws of the camera. You have to learn what it is that YOU as operator bring to the party and not just assume that your 'computer with a lens mount' will be able to read your mind and know what you want it to do. Any machine is only as good as the person in command of it. You also need to learn the limits of any piece of machinery used for creative means, learn how to get the most out of it and work around its limitations and last of all learn when to do the equivalent of Jimi Hendrix playing feedback or smashing his Strat into the amp for creative effect.
 
I was taught by people that autofocus is the devil. Never, ever use it. Always focus manually. Do everything manually.

I used Canon's Dual Pixel autofocus for the first time two weeks ago and I may never manually focus again.

Of course I will, but times change. The technology is VERY good.
 
Having auto focus as a quick confidence button would be good.. on my CN7 I have programed the return button to be focus jump in check.. so I can do that with my index finger actually during shooting for a second to know Im ok.. .. the VF button focus assist is a bit more clumsy .. and i wouldn't do it during a shot .. but really auto focus and even more so auto iris is not for professionals..
Publimix
"Yeah you are right of course, but wouldn't it be great if all the auto functions were just really good?
In other words good enough for a professional cameraman? Now they are not."​
I think the above statement sums it up.. you have probably bought the wrong camera.. its a pro sumer price but its not really aimed for that market.. thats why you don't have those auto functions.. as a professional its the choices my make with focus and iris.. there is no way an auto function can do that.. and thats why we get paid a pretty good wage by production companies for that skill.. stills is very different you are only capturing one frame..


 
Just as people said film is for pro's and video for consumers, that's not so long ago.

But of course a difficult machine with its workarounds keeps it exclusively for the 'pros'

I prefer the discussion good or 'not yet so good' above 'professional or consumer'. It is the camera we are talking about not the user.
 
Ben Scott said:
100% agree with that, although I have a feeling we appear to be in the minority on here :)
Click to expand...

Apologies, it must suck that the democratisation of technology means a camera like the FS7 ends up in the hands of a chancer like me. :)

Look on the bright side it should be a while before Sony fixes its FS7 supply chain issues so the sanctity of these forums won't be completely sullied for a while.
 
Ben Scott said:
100% agree with that, although I have a feeling we appear to be in the minority on here :)
Click to expand...

Me too - although a lot of people seem to be equating moving images to stills and I think that's where the confusion lies. With stills you pick your subject and you want it to be focus. With moving images you will be choosing what the subject is on a continual basis, and either adjusting focus as thast subject moves, or shifting focus from one subject to another - when and at what speed you choose. Plus as soon as AF starts to hunt you're lost, both in terms of a useable shot and confidence in shooting.

Steve
 
Nirv said:
Apologies, it must suck that the democratisation of technology means a camera like the FS7 ends up in the hands of a chancer like me. :)
Click to expand...

You are right, I don't think the original point came across in the best way. I hate the word "professional" as it's kind of meaningless. Some of the best proponents of various disciplines have been "amateurs" in some dictionary definitions of the word - ie that they don't earn most or any of their income from it. I think the point being made is that for the highest standard of work it's generally best to keep things manual, and that at the highest level of the industry that's generally the way things work - not that certain situations or certain individuals may prefer automatic over-rides. Of course absolutely anyone and everyone is entitled to have and to share their opinions and experiences.
Steve
 
Nirv said:
Apologies, it must suck that the democratisation of technology means a camera like the FS7 ends up in the hands of a chancer like me. :)

Look on the bright side it should be a while before Sony fixes its FS7 supply chain issues so the sanctity of these forums won't be completely sullied for a while.
Click to expand...

I think the world is a better place with people like yourself having access to great tools and bending them to your will.

'Professional' is a state of mind, not a job spec. You have to control the tools and not the other way around. Letting the machines choose what stays in focus is what leads to Skynet and the robo apocalypse.


See Doug, THIS is what happens the one time I agree with you!
 
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