Lens Investments

F

filmguy123

Veteran
Granted, the AF100 seems on the way out. Because of the "A", resale has dropped to sub $3k prices. S35 is becoming price effective, etc. And in the long run, I will want to join in with most of the mainstream lens selections (canons, nikons, and other full size 35mm lenses).

In the meantime, I like my AF100 and plan to use use it at least for another year. My current lens kit is as follows:

M43:

Olympus 12mm f/2.0
Voigtlander Nokton 25mm f/0.95

43 to m43:

Olympus Zuiko II 14-54mm f/2.8-3.5

35mm Via appropriate m43 Adaptor:

Minolta Rokkor-X 50mm f/1.7
Nikon Nikkor 85mm f/2.0
Minolta Rokkor-PF 135mm f/2.8
Vivatar 70-210 f/4.0 (it's not very good of a lens)


What other lenses could I add to my kit that would have good long-term shelf life? It's hard because I want my AF100 to shine while I use it... but I don't want to invest too heavily in lenses that I ultimately want to move on from when going to a S35 camera that takes standard full size 35mm lenses.

Is resale of m43 lenses expected to remain strong for years to come?

And is there anything that would work well with the AF100 to fill in the holes in the lower end of my kit (f/2.0 or faster around 17.5 / 35) besides the m43 specific lenses? Or in the upper zoom lens ranges?


Any other "must have" lenses given my setup?
 
If you don't want native MFT lenses you need to ask yourself what S35 camera are you most interested in. Thats also a tough question because each brand uses a different mount and most lenses for s35 are going to be manual. Even the C300 doesn't have push to focus but IS works so EF lenses with nice dampened focus rings are better. C100 does have push to focus. The most versatile mount is Nikon since so many of them are both manual and electronic. Adapters work well to put them on an EF mount. If your looking for cine style the new hot lens is the Rokinon Cine lenses. EF mount makes it work with the C100/C300 native and with an EF to MFT adapter your good to go.
 
If you want future proofing for S35 buy PL mount lenses. It will fit all S35 cameras either natively or with an adapter. The initial investment is high, but they will be the last lenses you will need to buy for a long long time, if not forever. Just buy them slowly if you can't afford a set. You don't need to buy new either.
 
Adamsenoj said:
If you want future proofing for S35 buy PL mount lenses. It will fit all S35 cameras either natively or with an adapter. The initial investment is high, but they will be the last lenses you will need to buy for a long long time, if not forever. Just buy them slowly if you can't afford a set. You don't need to buy new either.
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Adam I get what you're saying about PL but what about the whole Canon EF mount C series of cameras BMCC, DSLRs etc? Some smaller lenses have their uses such as on small stedicams, I have a GH2 with the m43 7-14mm f4, 20mm f1.7 and 45mm 1.8 just for this exact purpose. Bigger lenses means more of a rig or a limited amount of movement sometimes. Taking allpersonal preference out of the picture, do you not consider PL lenses as specialist lenses?

To the OP, I favour new multi coated nikon mount lenses for my own set of lenses, primes and constant aperture zooms.
 
Most people would find it hard to invest $12K in a three prime PL set, and that's for the cheaper CP.2 variety. Be realistic with your purchases for what you do with your camera and buy only what you can afford. Great advice I need to use for myself. :)
 
XSVpro said:
Adam I get what you're saying about PL but what about the whole Canon EF mount C series of cameras BMCC, DSLRs etc? Some smaller lenses have their uses such as on small stedicams, I have a GH2 with the m43 7-14mm f4, 20mm f1.7 and 45mm 1.8 just for this exact purpose. Bigger lenses means more of a rig or a limited amount of movement sometimes. Taking allpersonal preference out of the picture, do you not consider PL lenses as specialist lenses?
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Well, let's put it this way. For S35, there is no better and more appropriated lens mount. Yes, Canons and the BMCC have an EF mount. But you can get a PL adapter and use PL lenses with them without a problem. On the other hand, you can't use an EF mount lens on a PL mount camera as there are no adapters. If he will get a S35 camera in the future as he said he wants, there are more chances that it will be a PL mount. BMCC is a small sensor for example. He mentioned he wanted to eventually move to S35 and wanted something that would be future proof for the format. In this case, there's only PL. But not all PLs are Master Prime sized. There are several light weight PLs. Also, although they are pricey, you can also buy used or even start with a short zoom in the beginning, such as the RED zooms. Most people slowly build their sets. I don't consider PL lenses specialist lenses at all. They are the standard for S35 not the exception. S35 was not developed to film events, weddings, corporate or broadcast. It was developed for motion pictures. Now S35 is being adapted for other types of shooting, but it doesn't make PL lenses, which have been the standard for S35 for years, specialist or exotic tools. If I had to say, shooting motion pictures with lenses made for still cameras is the aberration here really.
 
I went the route of Leica R primes. They're incredibly well built, optically top notch, not all that expensive used ($500-$1500 used, or about as much as a new native m43 lens) and only seem to be appreciating in value. The long flange distance adapts to anything, even Nikon.

For zooms, I'll probably pick up two more inexpensive but good DX zooms like the Tokina 11-16 and Tamron 17-50
 
I'm still using my AF100 and expect to buy a BMCC the MFT version, with that in mind I decided to equip my AF100 with cine lenses so I could use them on both cameras. I went with 5 Rokinons the 8mm, the 14mm, the 24mm, the 35mm and the 85mm. I filled in with a 50mm Nikon Ai and a 80-200 Nikon Ai-s. This is what my AF100 package looks like now. I still have several MFT lenses and have them available for use with either the Panasonic AF100 or GH2

[TABLE="width: 800, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]
Panasonic AF100 Body
Voightlander Micro Four Thirds to Nikon F Adaptor
6- Nikon F Mount Cine Lenses 8, 14, 24, 35, 50 and 85mm
1- Nikon F Mount Zoom Lens 80-200mm
4- Panasonic Battery Packs
SSL-BGV50 Panasonic Battery Charger
4- 16GB SDHC Gold Series Memory Cards
Manfrotto Tripod with Fluid Head
Camera Rig with Follow Focus
2 Stage Swing Away Matte Box / Eyebrow & Side Flags​
​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Adamsenoj said:
Well, let's put it this way. For S35, there is no better and more appropriated lens mount. Yes, Canons and the BMCC have an EF mount. But you can get a PL adapter and use PL lenses with them without a problem. On the other hand, you can't use an EF mount lens on a PL mount camera as there are no adapters. If he will get a S35 camera in the future as he said he wants, there are more chances that it will be a PL mount. BMCC is a small sensor for example. He mentioned he wanted to eventually move to S35 and wanted something that would be future proof for the format. In this case, there's only PL. But not all PLs are Master Prime sized. There are several light weight PLs. Also, although they are pricey, you can also buy used or even start with a short zoom in the beginning, such as the RED zooms. Most people slowly build their sets. I don't consider PL lenses specialist lenses at all. They are the standard for S35 not the exception. S35 was not developed to film events, weddings, corporate or broadcast. It was developed for motion pictures. Now S35 is being adapted for other types of shooting, but it doesn't make PL lenses, which have been the standard for S35 for years, specialist or exotic tools. If I had to say, shooting motion pictures with lenses made for still cameras is the aberration here really.
Click to expand...

Hi Adam,

Should of replied ages ago. That metabones adapter has had me thinking....

PL mount lenses, correct me if i am wrong, came from film cameras specifically for shooting film on film cameras, digital cameras at our level, be that S35, m43, full frame, APS-C/H or BMCC are being made with either a flexible Mirrorless mount of some kind, a fairly flexible Nikon mount or a "you will use our lenses or pay extra for a PL mount" Canon mirror mount I.e. EOS (why they didn't go Mirrorless with the C series I just don't know?!)

Now, we have locked horns a few times, mostly from me being childish but I'm trying to make amends. I'm not judging your PL lens decision, just think that a set of lenses made for a specialist task such as film making, however appropriate, are specialist lenses, they're made for one Job essentially. This makes them extremely well made for the task at hand but also expensive, heavy and expensive (did I say expensive?) and might not be the right first choice. I know your view is the overall investment, buy cheap buy twice, buy expensive buy once kind if thing, which I agree with to a certain extent.

I don't know about you but the speedbooster from metabones has really opened my eyes, if I was to buy PL mount glass now I'm kind of locked out of this tech unless I look at the new breed if cinema PL lenses, hear me out....

...considering all of the cameras up to RED Epic, I would probably go for the Full Frame Canon Cines in EOS mount, the Zeiss CP2s in Nikon mount and Duclos 11-16 and 70-200 T2.8 in Nikon mount, reason being that they are all PL grade, geared lenses that are useable on everything from a humble T2i to the Hobbit Shooting RED Epic in Nikon/Canon mount. The beauty of the current mirrorless gems like the BMCC, Sony F3, F5 and our humble GH2/3/AF100 is that you can effectively use the metabones adapter with PL grade lenses, as long as you have ignored the PL option all of these great (expensive) lenses now pull more sharpness, speed and even different FOV out of those PL lenses than if they were being used by themselves, which of course you still can do for a different focal length. I'm also wondering if the Sensor crop that happens on RED cams at faster frame rates could be worked around with the adapter? (Is Bob around to comment)

PL is a great investment but at the low end there are a ton of choices and I feel PL quality lenses are going to make more and more sense over time but in the truer more flexible Nikon mount. That's the difference between flexible and specialist in this context I guess, how many applications can that lens be used? If its just one then I'd say its a specialist item ment for a specialist job. I see PL quality glass in either its original mount or else being pretty much nearer the end of a shooters journey when he/she begins to spend (and earn) the time really honing their craft to be a specialist using specialist tools. There is a hell of a lot more to learn until then and a whole different pay scale to be in to warrant owning over renting them.

What do you make of the Metabones adapter impact on these new flexible mount PL grade lenses? Is it the possible end of the PL mount for new products now that Zeiss and Canon offer different mounts and that film is being overtaken by digital?
 
Investment


To me MFT is not an investment format, the speedbooster changes the game, now a 24/28 or suchlike is useful to a MFTer or even BMCer

Id get manual stills primes

I guess nikkor or contax or some other zeiss

Nikkor are the most flexible but focus the the 'wrong way'

Some other notes on investment ..
IS lenses fall apart (worst)
AF lenses fall apart
Sigma/Tokina/Tamron fall apart then Canikon next.

IMO AF motors last about 3-5 years only

I have a stack of AF that is bust, but still use 1983 manual nikkors that I bought in 1989

I even have a nikkor (£1800?) 70-200 VR that is only three years old but the clutch (af) slips and it is bust for manual focus use - even after a £300 service it is bust again after a month

My nikkor 600/4 AF the AF motor is bust and being a V1 (1996?) of the lens nikon do not do spares - £6000 down the tube - actually ill get it PLd and give to a rental house!

S
 
XSVpro said:
What do you make of the Metabones adapter impact on these new flexible mount PL grade lenses? Is it the possible end of the PL mount for new products now that Zeiss and Canon offer different mounts and that film is being overtaken by digital?
Click to expand...

I doubt PL is going away anytime soon. It's too widely used in higher end cameras (including digital), and there is simply too much really good (and expensive) glass out there in PL.
 
Heresy - but the only threat to PL is really good AF

Cinematographers will waffle about it being wrong for two years then swap

S
 
Mike Harvey said:
I doubt PL is going away anytime soon. It's too widely used in higher end cameras (including digital), and there is simply too much really good (and expensive) glass out there in PL.
Click to expand...

I kind of figured as much but I think on the low non PL mount PL lenses (like the Canon Cines) will begin to make more sense, being able to use them on any camera and now with the speedbooster on smaller Mirrorless sensor cameras is really interesting to me. I think the Samyangs at the low end and Zeiss/Canon/Duclos providing Nikon and Canon mount options at the high end show a desire for cine PL functioning lenses that are not PL mount.

Erik, if you're reading, maybe this starts to make more sense to you? (Mount swapping on your PLs for the studio C300)
 
morgan_moore said:
Heresy - but the only threat to PL is really good AF

Cinematographers will waffle about it being wrong for two years then swap

S
Click to expand...

Auto Focus is a threat to PL? Really? I don't see that to be honest, Directors who work with Actors want the "Truth" from a take more than anything else and see that lasting for two maybe three takes at best, can't see Auto Focus lasting long when it screws a really good performance due to a technical glitch
 
Of course that is how it is. Today. But if you are dropping (and our OP wont be so I dont want to derail the thread too much) $30-$50k on a cine zoom lens you gotta look 5 years into the future.

S
 
morgan_moore said:
Of course that is how it is. Today. But if you are dropping (and our OP wont be so I dont want to derail the thread too much) $30-$50k on a cine zoom lens you gotta look 5 years into the future.

S
Click to expand...

I doubt anyone outside of a rental house will buy the expensive PL zooms unless they rent equipment out to rental houses, Primes on the other hand are around $4-7K and a small set of three or five CP2s could make sense to some, I still think its mad to drop $15-25k on glass when as an operator you will get hired for the camera you own first, the camera you can use second and the glass you own.... Well I don't think I've had a single client ask if I'm honest and none of these attributes count higher than your reel/previous works. As a DP you will be hired for your vision and skill with light and understanding of film, not what you own.

I really can't see auto focus ever being used on a PL lens, remote focus control has been around a while and focus pullers are a skilled bunch, I can't see a director handing over that control to contrast detection?

you never know for sure I guess.
 
To the OP, I've been quite happy with Contax Zeiss primes as my personal set. They're super-sharp, work on a number of cameras (converted to Nikon-mount), and if the production calls for it I just rent something better. No need to spend a truckload on lenses unless you're bringing in the money to make back that investment quickly. Just my two cents on the matter. :)

Happy Shooting!

- Jon
 
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