FS7: Lens conundrum

cjwolff

cjwolff

Well-known member
So I recently purchased an Fs7 and a a7rii without lenses. I have a few Nikon and a contax Zeiss lenses sitting around that render gorgeous images.

However I feel like I'm shortchanging myself not having new Sony Zeiss glass interchangeable with both the fs7 and a7rii. Clearly a set of Sony Zeiss primes won't be cheap but that limits me with regard to autofocus high speed moving objects. Of course I can pick up a novo flex contax adapter and put together a set of contax primes for less than $2000.

Thoughts? Since most cinematography is shot manual anyway I'm torn between the options. Thanks in advance.
 
I know few, if any folks respect my opinion here, but I'll opine anyway on this:

Have you considered the Rokinon Cine Primes? They're quite sharp, and they won't empty your bank account.
For night shooting and working in very dim light, the Mitakon F/.95 35mm lens is really fun to work with.
I consider the Sony G 28-135mm zoom to be a decent buy and a must have item for this camera. It's a good outdoor lens and works in large areas where you don't need super wide.

On the rokinons, I have the 12 and 16mm primes. I like them both. Reasonably fast, sharp, and not too much distortion.
 
Actually I have considered a set of rokinon primes. But do you think it would be a better buy to get a set of Zeiss contax? I need a 28/35/50/85/135 and a macro.
 
Actually I have considered a set of rokinon primes. But do you think it would be a better buy to get a set of Zeiss contax? I need a 28/35/50/85/135 and a macro. Is the 28-135 a pain to use with a matte Box? Was thinking of either getting the zacuto or tilta rig.
 
That depends on budget. I've seen a few videos produced with Zeiss lenses and I was not all that impressed, considering the high price of those lenses. The Rokinons I've bought have given me excellent image quality for modest prices.
Where you might find a difference is in the ergonomics, or the physical operation of the focus and aperture gear/rings. The focus ring seems to effect great change in focal length at the far end of its range, where I would have liked to see it ramp down a bit in terms of turns ratio. It's challenging to nail focus on things far away. Other than that, I don't know that a lens at 5X the price would produce materially better video. It's pretty darned good.

I put some samples up in the sub forum recently. They are Rokinon 16mm full 4K frame grabs saved as PNG. Oh heck, here's the link to my Dropbox where they are stored: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/o1e15heg9sc6dpb/AABJHjbUE1aOblNjxJJi1An_a?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/o1e15heg9sc6dpb/AABJHjbUE1aOblNjxJJi1An_a?dl=0

All of these images were straight out of the FS7, Cine EI mode using a HG7 LUT baked into the recording. CA is nicely controlled, and the overall contrast is excellent with this lens. Pin sharp is the way I'd describe it.
 
cjwolff said:
Actually I have considered a set of rokinon primes. But do you think it would be a better buy to get a set of Zeiss contax? I need a 28/35/50/85/135 and a macro. Is the 28-135 a pain to use with a matte Box? Was thinking of either getting the zacuto or tilta rig.
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The contax zeiss are exponentially better than the Rockinons in every way. Sharpness. Rendition. Falloff.

Everything except the cocktail making in here is shot on the Contax lenses. I fact most of it on the cheaper 50 1.7 and 35mm f2.8.

https://vimeo.com/135915865
 
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cjwolff said:
So I recently purchased an Fs7 and a a7rii without lenses. I have a few Nikon and a contax Zeiss lenses sitting around that render gorgeous images.

However I feel like I'm shortchanging myself not having new Sony Zeiss glass interchangeable with both the fs7 and a7rii. Clearly a set of Sony Zeiss primes won't be cheap but that limits me with regard to autofocus high speed moving objects. Of course I can pick up a novo flex contax adapter and put together a set of contax primes for less than $2000.

Thoughts? Since most cinematography is shot manual anyway I'm torn between the options. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

I have been interested in the Zeiss Loxia primes and waiting to see if they extend the range. If they're very good lenses it is a bit of a deal breaker not having a full range.

I'm in the market for a set of primes but unless I spend silly money, which I'm not prepared to do, everything is saying buy a decent set of Nikkor AIS primes again.
 
basspig said:
That depends on budget. I've seen a few videos produced with Zeiss lenses and I was not all that impressed, considering the high price of those lenses. The Rokinons I've bought have given me excellent image quality for modest prices.
Where you might find a difference is in the ergonomics, or the physical operation of the focus and aperture gear/rings. The focus ring seems to effect great change in focal length at the far end of its range, where I would have liked to see it ramp down a bit in terms of turns ratio. It's challenging to nail focus on things far away. Other than that, I don't know that a lens at 5X the price would produce materially better video. It's pretty darned good.

I put some samples up in the sub forum recently. They are Rokinon 16mm full 4K frame grabs saved as PNG. Oh heck, here's the link to my Dropbox where they are stored: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/o1e15heg9sc6dpb/AABJHjbUE1aOblNjxJJi1An_a?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/o1e15heg9sc6dpb/AABJHjbUE1aOblNjxJJi1An_a?dl=0

All of these images were straight out of the FS7, Cine EI mode using a HG7 LUT baked into the recording. CA is nicely controlled, and the overall contrast is excellent with this lens. Pin sharp is the way I'd describe it.
Click to expand...

i just sold a sweet set of Ziess Primes that for all practical purposes, were unused. I only had them up to test. They were Nikon mounted which is why I bought them in the first place but as my world is more run and gun, primes proved to be impractical to me.
Unlike Basspig, I thought those suckers were pretty dang sharp, but like Basspig, I wasn't overly impressed. Part of the problem was that they all "breath" so a focus pull is broadcast with the picture swelling. Not generally a problem if you are in dollyland where you can bury the pull but in a stand along focus pull, it's highly noticeable and to me, objectionable.
Im loving my Nikon zooms and a few of my fast primes.
I think the Rokinon lensess are sweet but I also wonder about barrel breathing.
 
Ben Scott said:
The contax zeiss are exponentially better than the Rockinons in every way. Sharpness. Rendition. Falloff.

Everything except the cocktail making in here is shot on the Contax lenses. I fact most of it on the cheaper 50 1.7 and 35mm f2.8.

https://vimeo.com/135915865
Click to expand...

Having tested the kit 28/135 zoom, you are really only getting an effective FOV of something like 40/190, depending on your math. It's a slow f4 but has a nice focus range and in that regard is a nice interview lens. Terrible for off the shoulder. It be sweet on a s7rll as the FOV would be true but it would also be gigantic. Matt box should not be an issue for the FS7.
For the money, the stupid SELP Sony 18/105 zoom is pretty amazing for $600. Very sharp and speaks to both the FS7 and the s7. It's fly by wire focus is frustrating but in auto focus its credible.
 
I own full zeiss CP.2 including the super speed versions, nikon old primes, and modern nikon zooms. The zeiss' lenses have more blades and so hence nicer bokeh ( which can be argued ) but I've never been "unhappy" with using the nikons on a wide variety of projects from narrative, web-series, and music videos. To me the CP.2's are better but I'd say its marginal in terms of image, also i'd say one huge advantage of the zeiss is more for when working with an actual crew and/or you need faster lens change times, etc.

If it were me and I owned nikons I wouldn't see anything at all that would be gained by going to Rokinons. The big test for any lens is shooting wide open, look at the CA you get and if you think it's acceptable.
 
Personally, I wouldn't buy any Sony lenses, primarily because bodies change so often and you can't use them on anything but E mount. My Nikon mount lenses have been used on my FS700, FS7, A7S, Canon 7D, my old Nikon FG 35mm still camera, and you can adapt them to almost anything.

For the Rokinon Cine primes... they aren't terrible. I have the 24mm and 35mm. The 24mm blooms the highlights wide open, but then again so does my Zeiss ZF 50mm. The focus is nice and smooth on it, with hard stops. Definitely nice little lenses for the price.
 
While the Zeiss are sharp lenses, I found the CA to be objectionable.

The kit lens 28-135 is nice for the money, though not as objectively sharp as the Rokinon primes. It does have a sort of 'organic' quality to it, giving an almost celluloid look in some of the shots I took with it, but it's not completely parfocal either. Focus drifts long sometimes (not always) as the lens is pulled to the wide end. What the kit lens has going for it is that it is clean (probably because S35 doesn't use the edges of the lens' FoV and any imperfections are largely avoided. It's good for outdoor work where you can get back from the subject enough to take it all in. The bokeh is nice, too.

I don't own the Rokinon 24mm prime, due to bad reviews about it's performance. The Rokinons are hit & miss with respect to which lens in the lineup that you buy. The 16m and 12mm are quite good, and probably unbeatable for the price. They shoot 4K so sharp that, as one member wrote about my samples, "so sharp, it cut my eyeballs!" I'd reckon if you can get any sharper than this, you'll run into aliasing issues anyway.

The E-mount system is relatively new and not as established as Nikon and Canon mounts, but it may gain ground, so I wouldn't worry too much about investing in E-mount. But it's nice to have the Metabones adapter for Canon EF lenses, and I have my sights set on either the Tokina 11-16 cine lens, or the new 11-20 they just released.

I owned the 18-105 and hated it. Both ergonomics (lack of mechanical iris focus and zoom, and optically. Too much CA, smudgy edge detail, poor contrast. But.. after a friend brought over his Canon kit lens, it was so bad that it make the Sony 18-105 look good by comparison. So if you use kit lenses from SLRs, the 18-105 is probably above average in that category. But not so hot for 4K shooting if you're comparing to cine lenses and primes.
 
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One note for E-Mount lenses - I'm working on an app that will enable iOS devices to work as a wireless follow focus for electronic E-Mount lenses. While it won't fully replace physical wireless follow focus units, it will cost dramatically less, and adds virtually no weight or size to the camera rig. Unfortunately, the same isn't practical with EF lenses.
 
allenfacemire said:
Having tested the kit 28/135 zoom, you are really only getting an effective FOV of something like 40/190, depending on your math. It's a slow f4 but has a nice focus range and in that regard is a nice interview lens. Terrible for off the shoulder. It be sweet on a s7rll as the FOV would be true but it would also be gigantic. Matt box should not be an issue for the FS7.
For the money, the stupid SELP Sony 18/105 zoom is pretty amazing for $600. Very sharp and speaks to both the FS7 and the s7. It's fly by wire focus is frustrating but in auto focus its credible.
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I agree, for its price it is a bargain! Shot last weekend with only the Sony 18-105mm f/4 on the FS7 for the whole shoot.
 
After pixel peeping an entire weekend of youtube videos I'm sort of the opinion that the new rokinon ds fine primes are a good way to go. Can't seem to find any problems with them.
 
starcentral said:
I own full zeiss CP.2 including the super speed versions, nikon old primes, and modern nikon zooms. The zeiss' lenses have more blades and so hence nicer bokeh ( which can be argued ) but I've never been "unhappy" with using the nikons on a wide variety of projects from narrative, web-series, and music videos. To me the CP.2's are better but I'd say its marginal in terms of image, also i'd say one huge advantage of the zeiss is more for when working with an actual crew and/or you need faster lens change times, etc.

If it were me and I owned nikons I wouldn't see anything at all that would be gained by going to Rokinons. The big test for any lens is shooting wide open, look at the CA you get and if you think it's acceptable.
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My my semtiments exactly!
 
basspig;1986572149 I owned the 18-105 and hated it. Both ergonomics (lack of mechanical iris focus and zoom said:
Now 4k be a whole nutter kettle of fish. Not so sure a $600 Sony zoom would hold up.
I tested both the kit and SELP and really couldn't tell the difference in sharpness but that was NOT 4k.
What I could tell is the kit lens only focuses down to 3' while the SELP focuses down to 9". But the fly by wire is madding to be sure. However as I have hammered on previously, it's worth $600 just to keep in your kit when you need auto functions or if you need to mount an intelligent lens on an S7a.
I wouldn't hesitate using any of my Nilons for 4k acquisition however. Not for a minute!
Click to expand...
 
The Veydra 25,35,50,85 set in E mount looks like a great option. My most used focal lengths with sharp glass and great mechanics. I would wager the Veydras out perform the new Rokinon Xeen lenses. They are sharp wide open and I usually shoot F2 ish anyway although the Rokinon are brighter they don't get sharper till at least 2.8 or 4. After watching the lens tests the Veydras show almost no breathing. I'd be interested to see if Rokinon has reduced breathing on their Xeen line. I can't stand heavy lens breathing.
 
Sorry if I misstated. I own 1 (one) Nikon 85mm Ai lens that I picked up from goodwill about ten years ago. lo and behold with a metabones adapter it worked on the fs7 and a7rii. Now I need a full set of primes. The new cine ds line looked promising and well within my budget but I could cruise eBay for more Nikon lenses. The Rokinon 50 held up well in sharpness to the canon 1.2/50 and the only thing I could see was less rounded bokeh, although the bulk of my work is going to be food demonstration videos and not sea lights over the harbor ;)
 
cjwolff said:
After pixel peeping an entire weekend of youtube videos I'm sort of the opinion that the new rokinon ds fine primes are a good way to go. Can't seem to find any problems with them.
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Youtube videos have so much compression that it's hard to tell. Hopefully the still frames I posted earlier with less compression were a help.
You will be happy with the Rokinon lenses, and you will save enough money to buy something that can really make a difference, like a DJI Ronin. :)
 
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