legal matters

T

trueindie

Active member
Hello,

I didn't know where else to post this question on this forum. I guessed, since this is a legal issue, people knowledgeable about distribution might be aware of these matters, so I posted here.
............................
I'm shooting a feature in November, and I just got permission from a local hotel to shoot it there.


Now, this is a really beautiful hotel full of artwork from local artists, some of whom are of some renown. When I shoot the film and this artwork is in the background, are there copyright issues that I might run into? The hotel owns the artwork, of course. But everything at this hotel was designed by somebody, including the light fixtures were specially designed. So I can't really get around having something in the frame designed by somebody special.


If anybody knows anything about copyright or legal issues in a situation like this please let me know.
thanks
aveek
 
Yes, you have to have a release for every copyrighted work that appears in identifiable form in your film.
 
Last edited:
Chris,
This is horrible news. Absolutely terrible. I feel like crying right now. I was so happy I got their permission. And now I got to figure out how to work around the artwork. This is devastating. The artwork makes the hotel.

Thanks for the reply. Appreciate it.
Aveek
 
Sorry. You can replace them with art you have releases for, replace them digitally in post with something else, or make sure you never see any of them clearly in focus. Or obtain releases from the artists who's work is visible.
 
And to even attempt to clear it would be difficult. However, as the reason they have work there is to try to sell it, they'll probably say yes if you list their names at the end. If its worth it, do it - don't be defeatist.
 
Shirley if the Hotel gives you permission to shoot in their property it is up to them to deal with it? It will depend on the contract/arrangement the hotel has with the artists. I can see Lot$ of Lawyer$ Queueing up to di$$cu$ that :-) However as Paul says it these are artworks people are trying to sell then give them a credit. You may even end up with a list of artists studios you can use as future locations. Of course it depends on the local laws where you are.
 
From a post I made on another forum:
----------------------
I actually spent a good deal of time last night reading a clearance and copyright book. Actually, it's not that bad a situation. It's of course a good idea to get the clearances, so in case of a lawsuit, there's no fight if it is pre-cleared.

But in general, there are some precedents in US courts that suggest the following:
1. If an artwork is not being mechanically copied (for example a teddy bear is just being shown on screen and not being mechanically recreated), then it is not "copied" as far as the intent of the copyright law is concerned.

2. But in case of paintings and pictures and posters (teddy bear rule does not apply so one has to be careful), if it is identifiable, or not, if it is not central to the story, then lots of courts have ruled that it is not a violation of copyright. However, the trouble is that when not pre-cleared, copyright owners may still bring on a lawsuit, which most likely they will lose. But the fact remains, that nobody wants the lawsuit. So pre-clear.

3. Some states (like NY) and countries (like France) bestow "moral rights" to artists. Which means that even if you don't pay the artists, or clear with them, you better make sure somehow that the artist is credited (among lots of other things).

There were some other points, but these are the important ones. Don't take anything I wrote above as legal advice. Consult your lawyer if you have any questions.

I'm planning on getting the clearances. I'm also planning on changing the pictures in post, in the event any clearance is denied.

Thanks everybody. Have a great day. I'm pumped.
Best,
Aveek
 
paulears said:
And to even attempt to clear it would be difficult.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. It could be as simple as contact their artist and having them sign a release form for their specific art in question.

jagraphics said:
Shirley if the Hotel gives you permission to shoot in their property it is up to them to deal with it? It will depend on the contract/arrangement the hotel has with the artists. I can see Lot$ of Lawyer$ Queueing up to di$$cu$ that :-) However as Paul says it these are artworks people are trying to sell then give them a credit. You may even end up with a list of artists studios you can use as future locations. Of course it depends on the local laws where you are.
Click to expand...

It would only be up to the hotel to deal with it if the artist requested all rights and ownership of their work to the hotel (which I doubt the artists did).


trueindie said:
From a post I made on another forum:
----------------------
I actually spent a good deal of time last night reading a clearance and copyright book. Actually, it's not that bad a situation. It's of course a good idea to get the clearances, so in case of a lawsuit, there's no fight if it is pre-cleared.

But in general, there are some precedents in US courts that suggest the following:
1. If an artwork is not being mechanically copied (for example a teddy bear is just being shown on screen and not being mechanically recreated), then it is not "copied" as far as the intent of the copyright law is concerned.

2. But in case of paintings and pictures and posters (teddy bear rule does not apply so one has to be careful), if it is identifiable, or not, if it is not central to the story, then lots of courts have ruled that it is not a violation of copyright. However, the trouble is that when not pre-cleared, copyright owners may still bring on a lawsuit, which most likely they will lose. But the fact remains, that nobody wants the lawsuit. So pre-clear.

3. Some states (like NY) and countries (like France) bestow "moral rights" to artists. Which means that even if you don't pay the artists, or clear with them, you better make sure somehow that the artist is credited (among lots of other things).

There were some other points, but these are the important ones. Don't take anything I wrote above as legal advice. Consult your lawyer if you have any questions.

I'm planning on getting the clearances. I'm also planning on changing the pictures in post, in the event any clearance is denied.

Thanks everybody. Have a great day. I'm pumped.
Best,
Aveek
Click to expand...


I wouldn't trust anyone on the internet that gives vague blanket statements about using copyrighted material w/o getting proper clearances. Copyright law is very context sensitive so just because someone was okay using uncleared art X in project Y doesn't mean using art X in project C, D, or F will be okay.

It's great that though that your are not planning on using any artwork that you don't get a clearance for.
 
adkimery said:
I wouldn't trust anyone on the internet that gives vague blanket statements about using copyrighted material w/o getting proper clearances. Copyright law is very context sensitive so just because someone was okay using uncleared art X in project Y doesn't mean using art X in project C, D, or F will be okay.

It's great that though that your are not planning on using any artwork that you don't get a clearance for.
Click to expand...

You don't have to trust me. As I mentioned in my post, my vague information, is from reading a book.
I also mentioned that nothing I wrote should be construed as legal advice.

But if anybody is interested. Buy this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Clearance-Copyright-Everything-Independent-Filmmaker/dp/187950572X

There are several case studies that demonstrate that courts have ruled clearance issues in favor of studios. If an artwork is not central to the story, then having it in your film is considered fair use. If a dagger is a piece of art, but is used to perform its function, i.e. to stab, then it is considered fair use. If a utensil is a piece of art, but it is used to perform whatever function it is supposed to perform, then having it in your film is considered fair use... etc., etc.

Edit: just remembered this so thought I should post it. If a piece of copyrighted artwork, however prominently portrayed in your movie, is in a public space, you can film it all day and not violate any copyright laws.

The problem of course is that you don't want to test the system. So it is generally a good idea to get the clearance.

Best,
Aveek
 
Last edited:
If the hotel is happy for you to film there they may be open to the temporary shuffling of some of the art - art you can get clearance for put front and center, the works you can't push them out of shot or out of focus. That being said, that's only if the hotel is cool with you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top