Learning to light cinematic.

Azmyth

Azmyth

Veteran
On my feature film EXIT 101, I didn't do a whole lot of the lighting set ups. (I did a few) But for my new projects I may be doing alot of the lighting myself.. especially some of the short films I plan to do. I was doing some tests last night with my new T2i and I couldn't really get the cinematic look I was trying to achieve. Thought maybe you guys could give me some pointers. I've looked at all the lighting links and watched numerous tutorials, and they all gave good info.. but I can't seem to replicate their results. Maybe its the lighting I'm trying to use.. or just the setup in general. Here's what I am trying to shoot.

- A guy in a small room with a round table, playing with a ouija board. I want it to have a "horror" movie feel so I should look like its not illuminated well. I had two candles on the table lit. For lighting, I was using two 100 watt CFL's one as a backlight (which I turned off on one of the shots), a 500w tungsten bulb behind the camera as fill light, and a 60w tungsten to the left of the actor. None of the lights were diffused (which is probably part of the problem)

Here's a diagram of the room.

2dky734.jpg


Here's what it looked like..no backlight

90p0k3.jpg
 
Two things jump out at me. The first is your key needs to be much softer and two, you need to work at flagging the light of the walls. Start there and see what happens.

Then to fine tune things a bit use a double net (at least) to remove some light from the table.
 
diffuse diffuse diffuse and shoot flat...

the room isn't very interesting either. you need to add something to it. better composition... the best thing to do... steal... i mean copy an idea... from another film.

go watch some of your favorite films that are in the same genre you're shooting. find a bedroom scene. screencap it, and try and copy the scene as best you can. You'll fail over and over, until finally you start to get it right. Don't listen to the "right way" of doing things either -- and i don't mean the poster above with the helpful advice... I mean being a little unorthodox is okay...

bathroom-2.jpg

really bad screencap image, but it was a quick google search. From the movie "what lies beneath" i'm sure you can find better ideas out there. good luck :)
 
And for goodness sakes... lower the camera height. Shooting the top of people's heads is not cinematic. Camera lens should be about even with his sternum. If you want us to see he's playing with a ouija board Give is a tracking shot of the table.

Did you read my stickied thread in the cinematography section? I covered all these basics.
 
PerroneFord said:
And for goodness sakes... lower the camera height. Shooting the top of people's heads is not cinematic.
Click to expand...

Ok...now that you pointed that out..THAT'S what hit me about that shot. Lowering the camera more would make it feel less home videoish. And mabe some pictures on the wall in the background.

EDIT ALso...is there a way to warm the key light? I see two different types of lights used. The one onthe left of him (his right) looks like a warm lamp hitting him...while the harsh key light is....harsh and much cooler.
 
Good call on the camera. I'm the actor so I'm filming myself lol.

There's 2 lights on in that shot.. a 60w tungsten from the right and a 100 watt CFL on the left... what if I got rid of the warm light all together and used a cooler light? And what about a hair light? I had one, but it looked too much like it was obvious there was a light there..
 
Stop lighting the PERSON and light the ROOM. You'll never EVER get your lighting to look realistic if you focus on lighting the person. Decorate the room as it would be done normally. Put a person in that space. If there is not enough light, then put your movie lights in the SAME PLACE and at the same height, as the real light sources, and see if you have enough light.

Shooting into walls is NEVER cinematic. There is zero depth to the screen. Stage it differently.
 
Get yourself a copy of Barry and David's new "Lighting" DVD. That is an absolutely invaluable resource for anyone looking for a head-start in creating cinematic lighting. Highly recommended!
 
Ian-T said:
Ok...now that you pointed that out..THAT'S what hit me about that shot. Lowering the camera more would make it feel less home videoish. And mabe some pictures on the wall in the background.
Click to expand...

There's 100 things here to change.

1. No screen depth
2. Light on talent does not follow motivated lighting
3. Camera height
4. Framing
5. Light quality
6. Light color
...

I hope newer shooters follow this thread because I have a feeling it's going to be educational.
 
Azmyth said:
Here's a diagram of the room.
Click to expand...

By the way, your diagram of the room bears zero resemblance to the photo. Your diagram shows the actor placed centrally along a flat wall. Your photo shows him stuck in the corner.

I REALLY don't want to sound like an ass in saying this, but why are you shooting a feature? These are the lessons you learn in doing a 5 minute short. When you shortcut the process, you just dig yourself an expensive, and time consuming hole. Put the "feature" on hold, and spend some time learning. It would benefit you greatly.

I am REALLY not trying to be condescending here, but I don't know if that will come across in this medium. I just see WAY to many newbies hell bent on shooting a feature WAY before they are ready.
 
PerroneFord said:
By the way, your diagram of the room bears zero resemblance to the photo. Your diagram shows the actor placed centrally along a flat wall. Your photo shows him stuck in the corner.

I REALLY don't want to sound like an ass in saying this, but why are you shooting a feature? These are the lessons you learn in doing a 5 minute short. When you shortcut the process, you just dig yourself an expensive, and time consuming hole. Put the "feature" on hold, and spend some time learning. It would benefit you greatly.

I am REALLY not trying to be condescending here, but I don't know if that will come across in this medium. I just see WAY to many newbies hell bent on shooting a feature WAY before they are ready.
Click to expand...

I'll reply to this one thing at a time..

Here goes. I made the diagram in paint. I realized after the fact that I shot into the corner, vs. the wall like the diagram shows. I was more or less trying to point out how large the room was.

In the original post I'm pretty sure I mentioned that I did not do most of the light setups for the feature which is already shot and in post by the way. Kind of too late for that. This has nothing to do with my feature, as the lighting for it was done mostly by people who knew what they were doing, I "helped" but the times where I actually did any of it myself I had a professional photographer helping and he decided on most of the light placement. I'm trying to learn how to light myself because I won't have those people around for my shorts. For my next feature (when that happens) I'm hiring a lighting tech to do it. Your not being an ass, or condescending. I KNOW very well that I'm an extreme noob when it comes to this. I wouldn't dare try to light a feature film myself right now. I'm wanting to learn though, so I can do so for some shorts I plan to shoot when I won't have people available to do it for me.

I understand your point about newbies and features, but I'm sort of past that point. I didn't do things on my production that I didn't know anything about. I brought in people who knew what they were doing, which is what I would think you'd do on any size production. I didn't run the camera, I didn't set up the lighting. I DID.. do special FX makeup (which I have a knack for), write the script, fund most of the production, secure the locations, organize the shoots, operate the boom/H4N on several occasions, and I'm editing. Anything that I didn't know how to do, or knew someone else could do better.. I found someone else to do. But this thread has nothing to do with my feature or future features. This is about me learning how to light on a personal level for my own personal projects. Hope that clears things up.
 
Absolutely clears things up, and I apologize for not seeing that in the original post. Sounds like you're going about this the right way, and doing what you can to educate yourself. I ALWAYS have time to try to help people doing that, as it's been done for me, and I GREATLY appreciate those who take the time to help me.
 
Stephen Mick said:
Get yourself a copy of Barry and David's new "Lighting" DVD. That is an absolutely invaluable resource for anyone looking for a head-start in creating cinematic lighting. Highly recommended!
Click to expand...

Yeah, I plan to buy it when I get some extra cash.
 
PerroneFord said:
Absolutely clears things up, and I apologize for not seeing that in the original post. Sounds like you're going about this the right way, and doing what you can to educate yourself. I ALWAYS have time to try to help people doing that, as it's been done for me, and I GREATLY appreciate those who take the time to help me.
Click to expand...

No big deal. I appreciated your comments either way. They were helpful. Sometimes being blunt is good! I'm just the kind of guy who likes to learn all sorts of things, in the event I may ever need to do it. That and whenever I do hire lighting techs to do the job for me.. I will at least have a basic idea of what they are doing and can communicate!
 
Azmyth said:
Attempt #2

2dt3k12.jpg
Click to expand...

MUCH better.

So let's tweak it.

1. Move the camera from this position, to about 30-45 degrees right. So that we are on the bright side of his face. This is NOT typically the way it's done as you'd want the bright side of his face further from the lens, but I think an unsettling look might actually help here.

2. Put the camera height down about 5" above the table.

3. Add just a touch of fill light to his face on the darker side. You can crush that in post if you want.

4. You have a very weird thing going on and it's distracting. the light BEHIND the subject is coming from left to right. And casting shadows to the right. However the light on the subjects face is coming from the opposite direction. This immediately triggers our senses that something is amiss with the scene.

5. The light on your subjects face is indicating that there is dark and moody lighting. Just the thing the setting your said you wanted. And then behind him, we have light as bright as the Sun... going the wrong way.


If it were me, and I was lighting this scene for you, the first thing I would do (and what I actually do on sets) is to shut off all lights. See what the ambient light is giving you. If you can use it, it makes sense to use it. Then I make the decision which way I am going to key the actor. Once that is decided, I turn on the key light. That may just be a lamp in the room that I rebulb with a CFL. Then I look to see if I need any fill. If I do, I'll add just a kiss of light with a small fluorescent until I get a reading I like. Once the light is shaped the way I want, I bring my levels up where they need to be for the camera to make a clean image. And no more than that.

Does this make sense?
 
Awesome! Great info. This would probably be a ton easier if I wasn't the actor.. lol Before I practice again I may try to find a friend or someone to stand in and be my subject.

The light behind him is a 100 watt cfl laying on its side on a stand. Whats the best way to fix that light so it isn't coming from the wrong way? Its diffused with a silk.
 
Last edited:
Great comments so far. For me what sticks out the most is the need for some fill light. Also...the light in the background is very distracting with the hard shadows they cast. But it is much better than the first shot.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top