lavaliers with cheap cheap recorders?

Z

zeidan

New member
hello everyone, i learned alot throw divxuser but this is my first post on the site and i was hoping that maybe you can help me out with this.

i don't have a lot of money to spend on sound.. and i am starting an almost zero budget short film project with the 5d mark ii. i know that h2 would be great with a lavalier mic but i might have to buy 3-4 of them to be able to capture actors sound separately next to the rode mono boomed shotgun. so i was wondering about cheap cheap small recorders like the (30$) Sony ICD-BX700 Digital Voice Recorder,
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/613267-REG/Sony_ICDBX700_ICD_BX700_Digital_Voice_Recorder.html

and if it will work fine with a powered lavalier like the Audio-Technica ATR3350 and if the fact that it records only mp3 files will affect my quality too much.

if its not a good idea what do you think is the cheapest buy that can give me the minimum sound quality i need.

Thank you
 
Just boom it. Don't throw away money on crappy lavs and crappier recorders. Spend the money one one basic field recorder, a boom, and a shotgun.
 
You're heading in a very risky and overcomplicated direction with your audio.

Using little recorders wired to lavs means that you have to plant the recorder with the lav on an actor. That's a problem. Not only is it difficult to hide from the camera, you will not be able to monitor your audio as you record. Let's focus on the latter: what happens if there's overmodulation, or if the mic happens to disconnect from the recorder mid-take? You won't know until after the fact, and unless you're planning enough time (and time=money) to listen back to every recorder on every take, chances are you won't find problems until you get to post. Then you're hosed.

Completely forget that you even looked at the digital voice recorders. They won't give you audio that you can use in any way, shape or form on your production.

And cheap lavs? They are, well... cheap. And they don't cost much, either. You'll have a larger capsule that can be hard to bury in wardrobe, and a frequency response that may not give you a very good sound.

You haven't given any actual budget hints here, so I'm shooting in the dark, but for the money that you'd spend on 4 H2 recorders and 4 lavs, you can do better and more practical.

You have a Rode shotgun and boom pole kit, right? Why are you wanting to lav everyone as well? You've got probably the best starting place you can have under the circumstances. You might want to look at adding a hypercardioid like the Oktava MK012 Bella Nero (about $250) for use indoors. With that, you'll have the two mics that you'd need for the vast majority of what you'll be doing, and can make to work for you for the other 2-5%. Just be sure to study up on mic technique... it doesn't matter what mic you have if you don't know how to use it.

Now, you're obviously in need of an external recorder since DSLR cameras still have pretty pathetic sound offerings. Look at purchasing, or renting, a single recorder for use with your single mic. The H4n is a favortie on a tight budget, though it is a little clunky to use. The Fostex FR2-LE is much more bag/cart-friendly (and is an overall better machine, to be honest).

Renting may be a better option for you. You can get a much better machine (such as an FR2 instead of an FR2-LE, or even better something from Sound Devices or Zaxcom) for a reasonable day rate.

And please, do not forget the (good) headphones. Sony MDR-7506 is a great place to start.

Whatever you do, don't worry about planting a lav and recorder on every actor. Your boom is your friend, and will do pretty much everything you need it to do.*

*Disclaimer: Again, knowledge and experience count! Knowing how to properly swing a boom is crucial, and if you don't know how even the most expensive mic in the world cannot help.
 
Thank you so much for your detailed reply.. i fully understand now
i just have no clue how to get the best out of a hyper cordid.. should i use it with a boom pole and if so i think an inexperienced sound guy with such a mic can turn into a disaster :/

what do you think about this setup
juicedlink, rode shotgun, boom pole, rode stereo video mic, zoom h2 and a Sony MDR-7506 headphones so i can have these two options:

- plugging the rode shotgun using the juicedlink directly to the camera and capture extra ambiant sound with the zoom h2 and the rode stereo mic

- or plugging the shotgun to the H2 through juicedlink with the rode stereo mic plugged dirctly to the camera for a free unplugged camera movement

Hope i'm on the right track now..

and sorry for repeating myself but REALLY thank you guys for the fast and honest reply.
 
zeidan said:
i just have no clue how to get the best out of a hyper cordid.. should i use it with a boom pole and if so i think an inexperienced sound guy with such a mic can turn into a disaster :/
Click to expand...

Yes, it should be on a boom. A boom is the only way to get the mic, be it hypercardioid (not hyper cordid) or a shotgun, close enough to the dialog to record properly.

And an inexperienced boom op can turn anything into a disaster, but a little reading up and a little practice can make a world of difference. I highly recommend that you invest in the "Sound for Film and Television" DVD that's available through the DVXUser store.

zeidan said:
what do you think about this setup
juicedlink, rode shotgun, boom pole, rode stereo video mic, zoom h2 and a Sony MDR-7506 headphones so i can have these two options:

- plugging the rode shotgun using the juicedlink directly to the camera and capture extra ambiant sound with the zoom h2 and the rode stereo mic

- or plugging the shotgun to the H2 through juicedlink with the rode stereo mic plugged dirctly to the camera for a free unplugged camera movement
Click to expand...

I think the JuicedLink is a waste of time/money. There's no reason to record "extra ambiant (ambient?)" sound with the H2*, at least not during dialog. Your job during speaking scenes is to get clear, clean, strong dialog and nothing else. Really, your best bet is to go straight into the external recorder for dialog. The Rode Videomic is a good idea, though, to get scratch audio for reference with your 5DmkII footage. That will help you sync the recorder's files later.

With a Rode shotgun (I'm assuming NTG-1 or NTG-2, though you haven't specified), you'll need an XLR input with phantom power (unless you have the NTG-2 and plan to run with a battery). But you'll certainly need XLR/phantom with a hypercardioid. Look at a recorder that has XLR mic-level inputs with phantom power. On the lower end, I'd say Zoom H4n or Fostex FR2-LE if you plan to purchase. If you can rent, Sound Devices 722.

*Little recorders like the H2 or H4n, with built-in mics, can be very useful for recording ambient tracks. Those are done outside of speaking scenes, after the actors and crew are gone, and often in completely different locations. Get crowd walla, passing trains, the ocean, a bird-filled forest... there are lots of things that can be recorded.
 
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You might consider shooting such that you have less need for multiple mics. Get close enough to the talent so you can minimize the need to cover two or three speakers at the same time.

When you are on a small budget, you need to make compromises.

Grant
 
Thank's C2v & grant
sorry for my bad English. i live in Cairo and renting sound equipments for every small projects might be a bad idea i prefer investing in minimum equipments, experiment more and save money for big projects.

I think i seriously need the DVD. :D

i will follow your advice and get the H4n for my ntg1 and use the rode videomic on camera

thanks for help
 
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