Lav Shootout! Rode, Tram, Sanken & Sennheiser

Chadfish

Chadfish

Veteran

Hear the different characteristics of these four lavaliere mics and decide for yourself which one is best for you. Also you'll hear how well these lavs cut against the RØDE NTG-3 shotgun microphone.
Thank you to Guy Cochran and DveStore for providing the Rode Lav and an extra Sennheiser G3 wireless system to do the shootout with.

RØDE Lavalier: http://www.dvestore.com/​products/​R...alier-Mic.html
Sanken COS11D: http://www.dvestore.com/​products/​S...-Wireless.html
Sennheiser G3 Wireless: http://www.dvestore.com/​products/​S...ss-System.html
Tram TR-50: http://www.dvestore.com/​search.php?...y=tram&x=0&y=0
RØDE NTG-3: http://www.dvestore.com/​products/​R...otgun-mic.html
 
Hey Chad, really nice work. That must have taken quite a while - really like the pace of that overview of these popular choices!

Was about to pull the trigger on some COS-11Ds, and you convinced me.
 
I absolutely love the Sanken, always have loved it but I'm really really surprised by the Rode. It really does sound fantastic, IMO it sounds better than the TRAM lav. The Rode and the Sanken seem to mesh really well with the NTG-3 so I'll have to probably get one of each.
 
Thanks for sharing Chad. Great job.
I really dig the sound of the Rode - but I also love my NTGs, so I´m probably somewhat biased.

Frank
 
Yes the Rode surprised me. I think I still like the Sanken best, but man that Rode would be nice too. I do like to keep things uniform, so my normal MO would be to get all the same lavs. But since the COS11 sounds a little brighter, I might use that on a male, and a Rode on a femail. Actually the tram would be good on a woman with a high voice. However, after you get acclimated to any of these mics they all sound good. I use that Tram when I record this guy's yoga class, due to a bombardment of RF hits on my G3 in that room I use my boss' Lectro unit wired with the Tram, and the guy sounds great. With the quick A-B-C-D comparison certain things stand out, that wouldn't be as bothersome (I think) if you just used one mic on a shoot. Also the Rode was only about 2db less sensitive than the Sanken, so you'll get a better s/n ratio if you have noisy gear.

Postmaster, I love my NTG-s too! I would only choose a lav over my NTG-3 if I could not get a boom out, or if I was "one man banding" it.
 
Thank you Chad for pointing me in the right direction. I love my NTG-3 as well. I think that I'll roll with the Rode.
 
Thanks Chad! Really nice job on this....I like the sound of that Rode.....hummm.
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
Why does the sanken sound so harsh in the upper frequencies. Maybe it's the compression being used with vimeo. I'd have to rank them Tram, Rode, Senn, and I can't believe I'm saying it, sanken. I love the natural sound of the tram. The sanken sounds very bright which may lend itself to be used under thick clothing.
 
so how were you running these to your recorder? by the looks of all of their connections was it through a Sennheiser G3 kit? my concern is this: i have 2 tram tr50's. 1 for sennheiser 1/8" and the other is a lectro mount. now when i'm using it a g2/g3 kit and i have talent that has strong "esses" it really hits high on the high freq S sound, i'm figuring thats due to its compander(lectro has 2 i think?) but when i'm using the lectro tram combo on the same person, its completely different and sounds much crisper.
 
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Chad, I also wanted to echo other posters in my appreciation for the time and effort you put into the lavalier comparison. I'm in the market so the timing is perfect.

Thank you.
 
I'm not sure why the Sanken came off sort of harsh gpforet. It's like that on the uncompressed recording. Like I've said, when you don't have reference like this, that gives you such a quick a-b, or a-b-c-d comparison, the differences stand out. When you use these mics alone you acclimate to their individual sound. I just used the Sanken on a very pro shoot, and it sounded great. Same with the Tram. To me in the shootout it sounded dull, but I just did a yoga class video using that and it came off great. Round and natural.

Mangler, here's my process: No processing was done on any lav. I matched the levels as best as I could using 3 Sennheiser wireless systems on the Sanken, Rode & Senn ME-2, and a Lectrosonics on the Tram. I know, not consistent. But my gain staging was good enough to not hear much noise on any track, but the ME-2 was the only one that I did notice noise on due to it's low sensitivity, and need to turn it up 8db to match the Sanken. NO EQ OR COMPRESSION ON ANYTHING. I went into the 4 mic inputs on my MOTU Traveler - going into Cubase, and I added about 10db gain to each track of the MOTU.

My aim was to get an idea of the character, or color of each mic. Not so much the noise level. Yes Vimeo puts a slight cottony freq muffle to the airy part of the spectrum, but it's the same amount on each mic. Having been the only one to hear the original to compare to Vimeo, there is little difference. I am rocking JBL LSR4328 monitors though. Computer speakers are useless for this, and headphones can't be trusted. You must have good monitors to get a clear picture, and that picture is represented will even through the Vimeo compression. YouTube is another story though....
 
This was very information. Thank you, thank you, thank you for the time and effort you put forth making this. And I think your answer is spot on. We do get acclimated to the mics in our kit. I'm currently evaluated a Oscar Soundtech tram clone and so far, I'm very impressed. I think the big surprise in this test was how the ME-2 came across.

Chadfish said:
I'm not sure why the Sanken came off sort of harsh gpforet. It's like that on the uncompressed recording. Like I've said, when you don't have reference like this, that gives you such a quick a-b, or a-b-c-d comparison, the differences stand out. When you use these mics alone you acclimate to their individual sound. I just used the Sanken on a very pro shoot, and it sounded great. Same with the Tram. To me in the shootout it sounded dull, but I just did a yoga class video using that and it came off great. Round and natural.

Mangler, here's my process: No processing was done on any lav. I matched the levels as best as I could using 3 Sennheiser wireless systems on the Sanken, Rode & Senn ME-2, and a Lectrosonics on the Tram. I know, not consistent. But my gain staging was good enough to not hear much noise on any track, but the ME-2 was the only one that I did notice noise on due to it's low sensitivity, and need to turn it up 8db to match the Sanken. NO EQ OR COMPRESSION ON ANYTHING. I went into the 4 mic inputs on my MOTU Traveler - going into Cubase, and I added about 10db gain to each track of the MOTU.

My aim was to get an idea of the character, or color of each mic. Not so much the noise level. Yes Vimeo puts a slight cottony freq muffle to the airy part of the spectrum, but it's the same amount on each mic. Having been the only one to hear the original to compare to Vimeo, there is little difference. I am rocking JBL LSR4328 monitors though. Computer speakers are useless for this, and headphones can't be trusted. You must have good monitors to get a clear picture, and that picture is represented will even through the Vimeo compression. YouTube is another story though....
Click to expand...
 
Here's a little add on to this thread. I just tested out the Rode PinMic and posted some clips. I plan on doing a more in-depth demo after I get over my flu, and get through all the Thanksgiving hecticness. I think the PinMic sounds pretty good. No processing on these clips. I included one AT4053b clip at the beginning to have something to compair to. Later I'll compair the Rode Lav with the PinMic to see if they differ much. They do both have the same capsule.

 
Thanks for the comparison, but if you have the time, I would suggest:
1. multitrack the SAME audio on each mic, then compare
2. rotate the mics to each others position, then compare
3. Use two different voices, preferably one male, one female
Otherwise, it isn't a comparison. If you move the mics a few inches, they will sound different.
Still, I can tell the Sanken is too bright for me, so thanks :) Getting rid of sibilants is time consuming.

For those who are interested in mic sensitivity, that is not the only factor in S/N ratio. You have to measure the output with the self-noise. If you have a noisy mic with high output, you have noisy output.
 
It was the same audio on each mic. All were multi-tracked at once. Rotation not necessary at the placement I used. All mics were the same distance from the mouth, and with an omni pattern I'm confident the sound would be the same if moved a couple inches left or right. Sorry, no ladies around to help with the test. I respectfully disagree that "It isn't a comparison" without your stipulations. The character of each mic was clearly captured and is obvious in this comparison, and with every use of each of these mics on jobs outside of the test I hear these same characteristics. Of course one could always add layers of clinical exactness to any test, but hey, I did what I did with what I had, and it seems to have helped people get a handle on the individual character of each mic.
 
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