Lattitude and low noise are so important

A

Antoine_Fabi

Well-known member
I'm kind of tired waiting for the ultimate lightweight "high quality" camcorder...really
, because i use my camcorder for 30 sec. TV adv. promo DVDs and cannot wait september.

I used to film with shouldermount carmorder but i like the convenience of the DVX100 and DVX100A. (lightweight and flexibility), but i dont like the high noise level and the relative lack of dynamic range.

Until the HVX200 is available (maybe sept, maybe december), wich camcorder will give me the lowest noise level (chroma and luma) and the greatest dynamic range between:

Canon XL2 ?
Sony FX100 ?
JVC ?

I'm considering the SDX900 but it is heavy and i prefer lightweight camcorders.
(i know...i know...i saw some footage...it is better)
 
Wells is right, the size difference between the JVC and the 900 are not that much. But as far as image quality goes the 900 has it beat hands down. That is sort of where I am at right now too. I have a 100a, but lately I find myself renting holding off as long as I have to until the HVX is out. I will be damned if I will shoot any HDV.
 
Guys,

I tought i was alone to think about that.

Maybe the HDV is not that bad.
Many images i saw from the Sony Promo DVD were shot with the HDV camcorder, and honestly, it looked really good, no noise and very very acceptable dynamic range...But no 24p !!!! aaahhh....

Did you try the XL2 ?
The images i saw on the internet were noise free and were extremely sharp.
 
Antoine_Fabi said:
Many images i saw from the Sony Promo DVD were shot with the HDV camcorder, and honestly, it looked really good, no noise and very very acceptable dynamic range...But no 24p !!!! aaahhh....
Click to expand...

I am going out on a limb by saying they stuck "the best of the best" on the promo DVD. With enough work you can make a Hi8 cam's picture look impressive. Real world testing will show us what HDV can do (and the HVX....someday).

That's why forums like this are such a huge advantage to us consumers.
 
The DVX has totally acceptable noise levels if lit and exposed properly. I set all the scene files the same except for the Gammas. Then I look at a production monitor and cycle throught the scene files till I find the Gamma that most fits that scene's detail range. This plus holding your highlights and proper fill in your shadows will yield results that will rival or beat the best 16mm films. I even had a spot shot on the DVX that fooled some producers @ Chelsey Pictures into thinking it was 35mm! And it was a car spot!
The DVX is the only camera out there that can emulate film without post correction. (except the SDX).
 
Theres a funny thread on DV.com about the demo DVD. Apparently Sony took uncompressed output from the cameras, thats why it looks so good.
 
Antoine_Fabi said:
Guys,

I tought i was alone to think about that.

Maybe the HDV is not that bad.
Many images i saw from the Sony Promo DVD were shot with the HDV camcorder, and honestly, it looked really good, no noise and very very acceptable dynamic range...But no 24p !!!! aaahhh....

Did you try the XL2 ?
The images i saw on the internet were noise free and were extremely sharp.
Click to expand...
The HDV Demo Loop that Sony likes to show at (NAB etc) consists of nicely composed images. Edited to classical music you think "That looks really sharp" but then -- you realize THERE IS NO MOVEMENT -- it's a series of locked down shots, more of a SLIDE SHOW really. The only thing that moves is a leave in the wind in one shot, then a car in a far distance.

The reason:
When you introduce movement to HDV it FALLS APART!
This is true for both camera movement or objects that more. The compression is so great and it only captures a few full frames every second that there just isn't enough information.

To illustrate this to a client at that I brought over to the Sony booth at NAB, I paused the loop., going frame by frame to the dissolve. Where one shot blends into the next you see this artifact also, as there is a lot of new information. The result: LARGE BLOCKS some people call it "pixilate" but it's a compression artifact known as "blocking". Several bystanders where listning to our HDV discussion. Then suddenly two Sony reps rushed over to us, and I got pushed aside by the more senior looking sales rep. "EXCUSE! me" he uttered, hitting that space bar, giving me a hostile look and beetled off.

Conclusion:
HDV ≠ HD
Please remember the simple formula and don't let anybody tell you otherwise
 
Isaac_Brody said:
Uncompressed? What kind of lowdown faux 24P manipulation are they trying to pull on us. Bastids.
Click to expand...


The message states that Sony did "uncompress" the HDV original and compress it again for the DVD. The poster apparently means "decompress", so neither he nor the guy at the NAB stand knew what they were talking about and such comes out false information.

Don't get trapped guys. They simply tried to fool everybody with a de luxe slide show filmed in HDV. Pretty weird but that's the way marketing sometimes behaves. There are no limits to force them to do otherwise.

We can only trust in Panny to prove the strength of the DVCProHD codec with nice
takes showing lots of movement (camera and objects).
 
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