"Late" --- A film by Drew Ott

Thanks for the review Nick.

I definitely see what you're saying about the two main issues you had. As far as Peter's reaction to being adopted goes, I wanted to have him speechless for a while. Before the line "Do I have any family?" there was originally a whole lot of speechless reaction as the parents talk back and forth to each other, but I had to cut most of that for various reasons. It does come off a little strange.

With the parents' reaction to finding out about his grandmother, I sort of hurt myself because I didn't shoot enough styles. I had some takes where it was almost comedic how they reacted. The mother said, "Raymond did you hear that? His grandmother's dead," as if she was trying to flatter a 3rd grader (not sure if that makes sense). My other takes were a pretty serious version. I should have had an in-between.

I did essentially tell the parents not to really care about what Peter says to them, so that is why it came across that way.

Thanks everybody for the comments. I really like the tough critiques so keep those coming. I'm not ever trying to "defend" my film, just explaining my decisions. If you hated some of it, please let me know. I'll be perfectly fine if somebody rips my film apart; it'll probably help me quite a bit.
 
I liked it vague like that. My thought was "Did he kill himself? Did he just jump into the pool to 'clense' himself of all the pain?" therefor 1) I was not setup for another sad development, turning the entire piece into a full-tragedy and 2) I still got the idea that he was upset about the whole ordeal.

EDIT: Just saw your above post, Drew. Up above I am reffering to the ending. And now I will respond to your response :grin: I totally understand about time limits, etc and about the speechlessness, I just thought maybe it could have been pulled off a little more shocked (but that could have been in the acting or writing, not necessarily you. Also, just my opinion) For the second thing, I was less bothered by this because it did give me the notion that they are so consumes with TV that they don't care, that helped to keep the characters consistant which is good.

Oh, and as far as defending the entry, etc...I think what you said is funny because I always feel the same way. When someone gives me a critique I like to respond with what I was thinking, I don't try and say I am right but sometimes it comes across wrong. I totally understand, is what I am getting at. Ah, and the third grader remark did make sense. Sorry if this last paragraph didn't, as it was just some random thoughts thrown together. :grin:

PS: I would have done the whole spoiler thing, but you guys have been talking about this stuff in the open so I figure I won't be the one to ruin it for anyone.
 
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Drew Ott said:
I actually intended to leave it ambiguous. In a longer cut, I may have had him take the birthday card out of his pocket and look at it for a while think ink fades, and then float to the top. This is how it was in the final version of the script, and we shot it this way, but it 1) didn't work and 2) was too long.
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Maybe you can put the floating birthday card scene in a director cut version :laugh:
 
nice work for your first film. I like the disenfranchised feel of the lead character as he struggles to connect with his self absorbed parents. I thought the lighting was subtle. The self isolation falling into the pool a steal from the Graduate and Rushmore but if you are gonna grab something those are good places to start. I look forward to seeing more from you down the road. Congrats!
 
bosindy said:
nice work for your first film. I like the disenfranchised feel of the lead character as he struggles to connect with his self absorbed parents. I thought the lighting was subtle. The self isolation falling into the pool a steal from the Graduate and Rushmore but if you are gonna grab something those are good places to start. I look forward to seeing more from you down the road. Congrats!
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Yeah I love those movies. I did get a lot of inspiration for the character in early stages from The Graduate, but it didn't come across very well.

Thanks for the comments.
 
Nice job. I'll be honest I'm not really a fan of completely locked off camera shots and i think following actors movements just slightly helps add a level of professionalism. I agree you did a very good job lighting, especially in the pool scene. I liked all of the outdoor stuff really.

The indoor scenes felt rather forced acting wise. Like they didn't care enough. I read your post and that seems to be what you were going for, but personally I didn't buy it. Falling into the pool, this would've been a little much to ask for, but if you could've gotten the actor to fall in without breaking the fall with his arms i think that could've worked better for me.

Overall I did like the story though and the ending shot of him underwater was very good.
 
Hey Drew ... duly impressed!!

A few comments that contain SPOILERS.

I somewhat agree with an earlier comment that the parents clothes should have been changed. However, it's certainly not unheard of for couch campers to wear the same clothes an entire weekend. It kinda gives the 'glued to the TV feel'. I guess I could go either way on it.

The background noise from the television seems to stay constant. Dad says 'fifteen seconds' but the program does not change. I think you could have used the television more as an effective tool to reinforce the timing/story.

I feel Jessica's 'strip' scene came across as a gratuitous skin shot. There really wasn't a good reason for it.

Lastly, I would have liked to have seen a long shot from in front of the Grandmother's house, with Peter backing away. As it is, there is one cut that just repeats itself.

Other than those few nit-piks, I think this is an outstanding short. Great lighting and great music really add a lot to the overall effects. I'd love to se the extended version sometime. No doubt the 6 min time limit forced a few tough decisions.

A really great job.

Alex
 
I just remembered another small detail ...

SPOILER



When riding his bike, Peter has his thumb out, but no cars. When a truck does come along, his thumb is not out. Should be the other way around.

I love the long shot of him pulling away into the dark. Really adds a sense of aloneness.

a
 
Very good. I especially liked the framing from the point of the pool scene and going forward in the movie. I won't nitpick on the clothes, that's been mentioned.

The story was pretty deep and fit the theme quite well. I love to see when people take the time (no pun intended) to really use the theme to their benefit.

I really liked the no care attitude of his "parents".

Nice work!

Mike
 
alex whitmer said:
I just remembered another small detail ...

SPOILER



When riding his bike, Peter has his thumb out, but no cars. When a truck does come along, his thumb is not out. Should be the other way around.

I love the long shot of him pulling away into the dark. Really adds a sense of aloneness.

a
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That was my only beef too. You probably should've had one or two cars pass him by with his thumb out.
 
alex whitmer said:
The background noise from the television seems to stay constant. Dad says 'fifteen seconds' but the program does not change. I think you could have used the television more as an effective tool to reinforce the timing/story.

I feel Jessica's 'strip' scene came across as a gratuitous skin shot. There really wasn't a good reason for it.

Lastly, I would have liked to have seen a long shot from in front of the Grandmother's house, with Peter backing away. As it is, there is one cut that just repeats itself.
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Thanks for the nice review.

I agree with everything you said.

I just honestly couldn't figure out how to portray that it was just becoming a commercial at the same time Peter is walking by to go outside. On set I wasn't sure what would work, so I didn't shoot the TV in the frame and I thought something would just work in editing. When it didn't, I cut the lines "10... 5.. and..." because they didn't make sense without the commercial switch and what-not. The way it is on screen now hopefully feels to people who hadn't read the script before as if the mother chooses to not wait for a commercial because he happens to be passing. Raymond's line would then mean "You have 15 seconds to end this conversation because you're talking during my show." This probably wasn't the best way but I was stuck with it while editing.

As for the "gratuitous skin shot," definitely. I shot it that way because that's how it is in the script, and I realized that nothing served the story to show her taking her clothes off on screen for a few seconds. I tried to get rid of the beginning of their conversation in editing, but my only master/wide shot was the two-shot of them by the pool. If immediately started cutting between her in the pool at the start of the scene, it wouldn't make any sense. I really hate watching that part of the film because it totally feels like I just wanted to have the "skin shot" in there, and that wasn't my intent. Oh well... you're completely right. I was waiting for that comment a lot earlier. Oh and also, I wish I had her holding a towel and then putting it down before she starts to strip. It comes really suddenly because there is no shot of the water and I have a feeling the audience is going "wtf??? oh..." while they watch the scene.

That cut of Peter backing away is supposed to be a POV from the neighbor. I was trying to steal what JR Hudson wrote about from No Country. Since I didn't shoot a real wide shot of both houses to really show the action like I wanted to, I chose to keep cutting between the POV shot.

Oh and the moving camera thing... I unfortunately cut two dolly shots. Hurt to see them go but the story was better (and shorter) this way.

I'm loving these critiques. Keep 'em coming if you've watched it.
 
I see you point on Peter backing away. The next cut however is a CU on the back of the Neighbor's head, which comes so quickly it's a bit of a jolt. In all it's the only cut I have some lingering pangs about. I guess I was looking for some kind of buffer shot.

Maybe a shot further behind her. Not sure.

As far as casting goes, you did an outstanding job.

The body types and manners fit so well.

Mom and Dad both have the body type/manners of inactive couch campers. The neighbor looks like she is active, and indeed is working in the garden. Looks like she eats well and is somewhat out-doorsy. Nice character/role fit. She's actually my favorite of the actors. I'd like her to my aunt or something.

Jessica brings the exuberant youth to the film. Indeed her body type and manners are perfect for the role. What a contrast to the parents, and what so many us of eventually become. Sadly.

And Peter - excellent choice. he carries himself like he has that burden.

Some of the best casting I have seen so far.

a
 
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Really good film...I enjoyed it. I didn't believe it, but I enjoyed it. I would think telling someone they were adopted might be a bit more emotional and that card looked nice for having been in the Mom's purse for 7 years (D'OUGH!). Which brings me to hitching ON a bicycle? Do people do that? Are people THAT lazy? Coming in the house for the final scene, you see him open the door, and you never see him close it.

I loved you poster and I kept waiting to see a scene from that location....

Other than that I really DID enjoy it, it was shot nice, the music was nice, the girl was nice...nicely done. Can't wait to see what your next film will be.

Excellent effort!
 
great job, i liked the camera work, not so much the story. i know you were going for the parents not caring, but to me it felt like a dark comedy at that point, but as it progressed i thought it was a drama with all the melodramatic music. i found myself skipping through the film as it seemed to drag from the slow dialogue. i went back and watched it though when certain parts seemed to pick up.

the acting was acceptable being as you were working with high school students, i thought the lead felt pretty natural. overall good job, but it seems like you could've had a little more fun with the story given the subject.

the ending felt like it was kind of a last minute decision. seems a lot of first time filmmakers choose a suicide film as their first project for some reason.
 
Mickey Munday said:
great job, i liked the camera work, not so much the story. i know you were going for the parents not caring, but to me it felt like a dark comedy at that point, but as it progressed i thought it was a drama with all the melodramatic music. i found myself skipping through the film as it seemed to drag from the slow dialogue. i went back and watched it though when certain parts seemed to pick up.

the acting was acceptable being as you were working with high school students, i thought the lead felt pretty natural. overall good job, but it seems like you could've had a little more fun with the story given the subject.

the ending felt like it was kind of a last minute decision. seems a lot of first time filmmakers choose a suicide film as their first project for some reason.
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It was a dark comedy, and it wasn't a suicide.

I know what you mean about it being slow though. I couldn't sit through a feature if all of the scenes had that style of pacing.


Alex -- you're still right. I really needed a wide wide master. I planned to get one but forgot. My "master" was the shot that appears right before the shot that jolts to them standing next to each other. She's delivering the line as she walks in so I had to cut when there was no lip movement because he was actually talking at that point. I did get a shot of her walking up from behind but her hands were behind her back and they weren't holding gloves which was a more awkward cut.

Thanks for the continued comments. I am really enjoying hearing them. It is helping me quite a bit.
 
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