laptop for DV rack

Jim Brennan

Jim Brennan

VHS Member Old Skool
I am seriously looking into using DV rack. There's no way I could run it on my current laptop, so I started looking into a new one. The first wall I hit was hard drive speed. They recommend 5400, and most laptops I saw are 4800. The other challenge I have is all the other crap that they charge you for, but don't need on a store bought laptop. So I thought about building my own (with a little help). I know a lot of people who have built their own desktops, but not laptops. Is it even a feasible idea? If it is, does anyone have recommendations for hardware (video card, etc) If not, does anyone have any thoughts on a good laptop to buy?

Thanks in advance.
 
Re: laptop for DV rack

I know lots of people that have built desktops; but never laptops.

God speed.
 
Re: laptop for DV rack

As far as specs I will let someone else answer but as for building - You can find lots of places that will build your laptop from a "bare bones" unit and you can basically add what you want and leave out what you don't want.
 
Re: laptop for DV rack

A laptop has a lot of proprietary components--at least the moldings to fit things in. So, it doesn't seem like a home project, but I agree that you can use one of those vendors that builds to specs. There was some discussion a while ago about a couple of manufacturers that the big computers sellers OEM their laptops from, but I can't remember the names at the moment. Maybe someone else can come up with the names.
 
Re: laptop for DV rack

How about getting a ShuttlePC type of "portable" desktop, with a cheap 15" LCD? You could build it yourself to your exact specifications, even a 7200rpm HDD or faster, and it shouldn't be too much of a pain to transport.

Check them out:
http://us.shuttle.com/

I'm sure if you get their barebone kits and use whatever computer parts you already have, you could put together a system for less than the $$$ of a good laptop, and then you could edit the whole movie using it as well!
 
Re: laptop for DV rack

I hadn't heard of either them. They both look promising. Anyone own one of these two systems?
 
Re: laptop for DV rack

Sager is what I've been looking into, although I haven't done a ton of research. They seem respectable and affordable, but I don't own one myself.

I borrowed a laptop to try out DVRack, I don't own my own yet....yet.
 
Re: laptop for DV rack

How did you like it? IT seems to be a great tool. How did the laptop you borrowed work with it, and how was it configured? Did you go tapeless?

Geez, I'm annoying at times.
 
Re: laptop for DV rack

Here's my very unofficial review (because I'm working on the official one):

I used DVRack on a HP athlon64 3200+ (or 3400, don't remember). 1 gig ram, 60 gig HD, 15" screen, Firewire, mobile ATI graphics chipset, etc.

The laptop worked flawlessly with it, although having a screensaver or auto screen powersaver really gave the program problems. That was a simple fix, obviously. The DV recording worked seamlessly, essentially mirroring the camera and automatically recording as I pressed the button on the camera. The clips did come in handy, as my rental camera and cheap tape stock combination resulted in a few dropouts on the tape. Using the DVRack clips as backup, I was able to replace the error prone shots.

Most of the functions were useful and provided a good tool on set for lighting (which was a nightmare for another reason altogether). The audio tools were great, and the instant review was very nice.

All that being said, I think DVRack is a great product that isn't fully baked yet. There were a few features that I thought were missing, and I thought they might have spent a little too much time on graphics design. None of the windows are resizable, meaning you've got to scroll up and down to see more then a few monitoring functions. Everything is made to look like a piece of hardware, but some of the functions are dissimilar to the real-world equipment the program is attempting to emulate.

Most notably and irking for me was the "widescreen" button on the monitor that, unlike the sony monitor it emulates, is just a letterboxing function...not a 16x9 widescreen stretch. This human error lead to an incorrectly framed shot before the mistake was caught.

I also don't like how the picture window is so low resolution. Even in full screen mode, it was not close to the actual resolution outputting from the camera, meaning that it would still be unreliable to double check focus on cameras with color viewfinders.

I think the next revision of DV rack is bound to be impressive, as my issues with it are relatively minor. What would make this product a "killerapp" for me is if they might open it up to a "skin" design...allowing the user a little more freedom in the design of the windows.

I'd like to see the windows be resizeable in the way windows in Vegas are, so that you can arrange your desktop with all the tools you need, where you need them.

Also, they've got to be able to display the full resolution of the camera out.

But all in all, it's a pretty great tool. I only bring up it's shortcomings because it's so close to perfection already.
 
Re: laptop for DV rack

Barry mentioned the widescreen issue in antoher thread.

I'm curious about the resolution. Is a laptop screen capable of the same res as the DVX? I didn't think so.

Well, luckily for me I probably won't be able to afford the set up (with the laptop) for a while. Maybe a newer version will be out by then.
 
Re: laptop for DV rack

A laptop can easily exceed the DVX's resolution. Think about it -- the DVX does 720x480, and almost any laptop can do at least 800x600, usually 1024x768.
 
Re: laptop for DV rack

[quote author=J_Barnes link=board=Links;num=1101967315;start=0#9 date=12/02/04 at 13:48:14]Most notably and irking for me was the "widescreen" button on the monitor that, unlike the sony monitor it emulates, is just a letterboxing function...not a 16x9 widescreen stretch.[/quote]
Agreed, and I've raised the issue with them and they say that it's definitely on their list of things to address. They do have aspect ratio switching but not on the monitor button, you have to go into the menu to access it.

I also don't like how the picture window is so low resolution.  Even in full screen mode, it was not close to the actual resolution outputting from the camera, meaning that it would still be unreliable to double check focus on cameras with color viewfinders.
Click to expand...
Agreed. That's my only real disappointment with the product, and I've discussed it with them, but I don't think it'll change any time soon. The monitor as-is does about 300 lines of resolution, which is comparable to the cheap JVC monitors or bottom-of-the-line Sony 9L series, but definitely not what you need. The fullscreen mode just magnifies the low-res image... it does help some but it's still not a reflection of the actual resolution. I've taken to having to load up the capture window in Vegas if I want to see the full resolution, and that's an inconvenient work-around.

The techs explained to me the reasons why it does what it does, and it does make sense, and there is no easy fix, but I definitely want them to address it. I proposed a solution that could/should work to show full res from at least the center portion of the frame, I hope they implement it.
 
Re: laptop for DV rack

It would make one less mandatory, that's for sure. But still, as good a simulation as it is, it's still not a true CRT. And if you were shooting interlace, an interlaced monitor is going to show you what an interlaced picture looks like better than a progressive LCD simulation will, so... I'd still want both.
 
Re: laptop for DV rack

Is the lowered resolution a sync issue or a throughput issue? I'd imagine it could be either. Obviously the easy workaround is to capture stills and review them before you shoot...honestly, that's easy enough to check beforehand, but it would be nice to have an accurate display for your AC while shooting...at least for focus pulling.

My personal biggest gripe was that I couldn't fit the three our four windows I wanted on the screen at the same time. it needs to be resizable for any sense of flexability. There are a multitude of screensizes and resolutions, so resizing just makes sense for professional use.

Also, I really did like the product. I wouldn't want the few flaws I found personally to disuade anyone else from considering it.
 
Re: laptop for DV rack

It sounds great. Still I wonder if anyone knows how close they are to the next generation. I can imagine that they must peruse boards like these to see what people are saying about their product. Hopefully insanely experienced and intelligent folks like yourself will be able to influence them for the rest of us. It is hard, after all, to know what to look for in a product this complex when you still aren't quite sure what you're doing....yet.
 
Re: laptop for DV rack

My only disappointment was indeed the monitor image rez. Not quite good enough to be really useful. BUT, I bought it for $300 after rebate, and am finding it remarkably useful. The digital recorder itself is worth it. I bought a $39 external hard drive enclosure, and went to Fry's and got a $59 160 GIG hard drive. It all works flawlessly. Really. And alot cheaper than those firewire capture boxes. I'm thrilled.
Serious Magic will no doubt be fixing some of the things we're not thrilled about, but in the meantime, it's totally worth it.

Joe Kell
 
Re: laptop for DV rack

Ditto to everything Joe Kell just said. Indeed, the firewire recording capability is worth it alone! The ability to split-screen the live camera against recorded footage is unbelievably helpful -- we used this quite a bit in our FX1/DVX/XL2 comparisons.

As for the monitor's low resolution, the display on the monitor from DV Rack is 512x384. They downsample it from the firewire input to 512x384 before doing any processing on the image (color correction, zebras, everything that they do that makes it so helpful). That downrez means they're dealing with about 50% as much data, which makes everything twice as fast, but still... I'd rather have the option of the full resolution.

Hopefully they could implement at least a 512x384 extraction from the 720x480 frame for full-resolution viewing, even if it means we can't see the entire image on the screen (basically the same thing the FX1 does for its "expanded focus" mode). As a programmer, I've got to believe that that would be a simple option to implement, and would give us most of the most-needed functionality from the monitor component.
 
Re: laptop for DV rack

I see why they went with 50% for speed and what not. (Less minimum requirements) It would be great to have a hi res switch option you could use it if you had the horsepower in the laptop. That and scalable window components and It would pretty much be perfect to me.  :)
 
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