KinoFlo Lamps in HomeDepot Fixtures

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dudeguy37

Well-known member
Would this work? It seems that if I get Color Corrected Kino Tubes from B&H and than get fixtures from home depot that are the same size and have the same connector, that I could have a pair of Color Corrected east to use lights for about a hundred bucks. Let me know what you think.
Peace,

-Harry
 
First of all, Thanks Brian, that was really quick. Anway...I admit it. I don't fully understand the point of using a KinoFlo...care to enlighten? Other than that, would they work well enough to use, maybe on par with the Grafflights?
Peace,

-Harry
 
As for myself, I have only used Kino Flo's and Videssence. I'm told the electronic ballast on more standard fluorescent fixtures have green and magenta spikes due to poor/low Color Rendering Index of the bulbs. The Kino bulbs have a CRI around 95, I believe, compared to 60 - 75 of more standard tubes. And, using a Kino Flo tube on a more standard fixture wouldn't be ideal, I have read, because the ballast wasn't designed for it and even with the better CRI of the tube, the ballast would still have the color spikes.

The visual effect of this? I haven't seen it to be quite honest. Never tried anything besides film/video fixtures. . . Walter apparently isn't bothered by it and neither is Jarred Land. . .

In fact, Jarred seems pretty happy with his home built Kino's:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V3/showthread.php?t=20506
 
Thanks Brian. I'll probably end up getting some sort of flourescent fixture in the next few months, I'll just have to do a little more research to figure out what it should be.
Peace,

-Harry
 
You can use the tubes on a homemade fixture wit no problem. The ballast has little to do with color temperature which is a result of the types of chemicals coated on the tube. Actually there are other manufacturers of tubes that make high CRI (95)+) tubes. There is nothing special about them other than the fact that kino flo has them made in China for them specifically. BUt those same companies that make them for Kino Flo also make a few more generic brands. Reason you don't see more is that there isn't a demand for critical color accurate flourescents.
 
hey dude,
i just did this last week, I got a highly reflective fixture at home depot ($31) and got 2 kino bulbs ($32) and presto, i got kinos. I haven't noticed any spikes, but i haven't shot with it enough to see it maybe (?) but I made some barndoors out of foam core and bought a $11 plastic grid (like the kino ones, got it at a plastic store) and it focuses the light pretty well, but it dos cut the output alot, i would suggest coating he foam core barndoors on the inside with roscoe 3602 (?) the soft reflective gel... They look pretty ghetto and they're hard to mount on a stand, but hey, you're saving like $1,200! And if ou're using only the kinos, you don't even need the special bulbs cuz you can just manual white balance. (Although make sure they're at least CRI 95 for brightness) Good luck!
 
There are fluros made especially for graphics art use that come in 3200K and 5000K color temps, they are called Optima bulbs. Optima 32 for the 3200K and Optima 50 for the 5000K. They are sold on-line from various suppliers . One place is here:

http://www.naturallighting.com/store_front.cfm?&parent_id=72

Kinda pricey for a fluro bulb though. Regular fluros with high CRIs will work cheaper. CRI has nothing to do with brightness. It refers to "trueness" of the color. Brightness is measured in lumens and is directely proportional to wattage output.
 
Question for Walter Graff. Doesn't Kino-Flo fixtures have higher output ballast that make them brighter? From what I've heard, the Kino-Flo bulbs will work in normal fixtures, but that using regular fluros in Kino-Flo fixtures is bad because of the over driven ballast. Is this true?
 
Rosestar said:
Question for Walter Graff. Doesn't Kino-Flo fixtures have higher output ballast that make them brighter? From what I've heard, the Kino-Flo bulbs will work in normal fixtures, but that using regular fluros in Kino-Flo fixtures is bad because of the over driven ballast. Is this true?
Click to expand...

Kino Flo says lots of questionable things. They also say that color meters are not accurate and no two will read the same.

Kino flo tubes work just fine in any fixture. But if you don't want anyone to look at the man behind the curtain, you say that only Kino Flo tubes work with Kino Flo fixtures. Just like when the battery department on a toy say use only Duracell. You can also buy high output ballast fixtures at the home depot. Kinoflo doesn't have anything special in that department either. High output ballasts are actually quite common today in many fluorescent fixtures. I just installed some in my garage so I can have more light while working on cars, etc. They are usually labled VHO (very high output) or "Quick Start in cold" And if your fixture isn't high output, you'll still get plenty of light. Paralight makes great lamps that have high CRIs

http://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/fluorescent_bulb_compare_lights.shtml
 
That's what I figured. Thanks for the link. It is hard to find full spectrum lighting where I am at.
 
What lamps are you getting for the Home Depot fixtures? (model numbers or link to bhphoto if you could)

Joe
 
The Kino Flo lamps are nice because they have a plastic layer on the outside.. Because of the size they attract accidental drops during replacement. I did that once and boy was I glad it didn't shatter all over everything.. It shattered, but was all self-contained inside the plastic covering. Good to hear you can apparently use this lamps in other fixtures with good results. I know the LD contracted here in Amarillo for TV studio lighting (Dennis Size from NYC) used the Kino lamps in some everyday household fixtures for a home makeover show they did in midtown. The director apparently didn't want to see any "TV" type lighting fixtures.. So the Kino lamps in household fixtures worked well in that application. DS could tell you in great detail, and actually told my brother in great detail, how exactly the Kino fixture and ballast are different from an everyday household fixture and why the results are different. I'm not a big whig tv guy like my brother and I didn't have that conversation... But, I do know there is a difference.. Just never cared to find out exactly what they are. I think DS in on some internet forum, maybe Creative Cow? I don't recall. Anyways, glad to hear others are having good results with the lamps in other fixtures. Hope this fragmented rant is helpful or something.
 
There are HO, VHO, and NO ballasts... high, very high, and normal output. Apart from that there are magnetic, electronic, and HF electronic ballasts. Using an HO or VHO ballast will overdrive NO tubes... but you can find HO and VHO tubes at higher wattages... still in the same form-factor. As in a high wattage 4' T12 style tube, but double the normal 40w. Overdriving NO lamps will shorten their life, but with the long life of flos it's not really that big of a deal... unless you don't have air circulation around the tubes and end-connectors. Heat build-up in those areas will dramatically shorten the lamp life. For most designs that's not a factor... but if you put a NO tube on a VHO ballast I'd be sure to keep a spare tube handy.

As I think Walter already stated the green spikes are from the tubes, not the ballast. Choosing the desired color temp and a high CRI will take care of the issue of proper color rendition (and white balance if you choose 3200k or 5600k tubes). Any brand flo you can find with a CRI over 90+ and the color temp you want will give good results in a decent fixture with a decent ballast.

The primary reasons why the flo light companies own the market like they do are matters of convenience, versatility, and performance.

First, all the fixtures use HF electronic ballasts. This eliminates the flicker associated with fluorescent lighting. Taking it a step further many models also include a dimming option... which dramatically raises the price these companies must ask for their product.

An Osram/Sylvania Pho-Dim HF electronic ballast is around $60-$70 from the average online electrical supply house... and in a dimmable version the price jumps to nearly $200... without the actual dimming circuit! This ballast, in dimming and non-dimming versions, is commonly used.

Next of course is the high CRI tubes in daylight or tungsten... nothing special needs to be added there.

After that the challenge is to come up with a system which gets the light stand-mounted and gives you options for getting the light where you want it, and keeping it away from where you don't. Barndoors, grids, and framing to mount gels, scrims, and blackwrap are all ways to help with this.

Finally the system must be durable. These are LOCATION lights afterall...

You'll find in your quest to get cheap location lighting that you must decide on what areas to compromise (in many instances you don't have a choice anyway)... If you don't accept substantial compromises in a DIY lighting design then it will cost surprisingly close to the same price to build your own lights as to buy the professional versions from Kino or Gyoury.
 
I know you're making fluorescant fixtures now and appreciate the great information.

I have to ask, though, what is inside those heavy Kino "ballasts" anyways?
Can you fit all of that stuff inside a fixture or does it have to be separate?
 
I think Kino uses an eye-dropper to deposit a little dark matter inside of each ballast case.

Okay seriously the ballasts they use are larger... and the dimming circuits are inside the same case.

I've had a LOT of ballasts in my house over the last 3 months and they have varied MASSIVELY from one to another... of different models and makes I mean... some big and heavy... some not so much. If I wasn't clinically insane I'd have just bought some professional flo lighting and saved myself a wad of cash... I was just at Mittler Brothers today speaking with Bill about "The Ultimate Brake"... which you can see H E R E if you care to... because I'm getting pissed at my metal fabricator who keeps telling me, "they'll be done by the middle of next week", every week.

I provided exact drawings to scale and I bought a few tools so that I could shear the metal down to size (before bending) and I also made the fixture ends... which get welded on... so it's just bends and welds... for 25 shells.
 
I don't think anyone would be offended if you offered a link to some information on your lights.
Maybe even keep it in your signature. I mean, the 35mm adapter guys do that already......
 
When I'm ready I won't be shy about showing what I've got... at this point I kind of wish I'd kept my mouth shut earlier.

Honestly I didn't think there would be SO MANY snags at the end like this... even if I want to buy that brake I have to wait two or three weeks anyway! Can you believe they sell those things as fast as they can make 'em? I will say one thing though... they had a couple different brakes in that factory and their's is way-trick. They let me bring in some of the metal that I'm using just so I could try it out... When these lights finally DO get done they will be so over-built that it's nuts... I thought the .063 diamond plate was "okay" but not bulletproof... so I also bought .080 material... well once I put a couple bends in that .063 that stuff turned into a rock! I don't know what I'm gonna' do with all this .080 yet... You're gonna' see a lot of video stuff come out of my shop this summer.
 
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