Kino Flo vs LED's

N

nickbeef

Active member
I'm about to take the plunge on getting a Kino Flo Diva 400, but before I do I happen to be looking at appendix A.3 in the back of "Set Lighting Technician's Handbook" by Harry C. Box, which can be download from the companion website:

http://www.routledge.com/cw/box-9780...1/p/resources/

Anyways, what is not on that chart are LED's, probably both because of the variability and newness to the market. Does anyone have any opinion on where, lets just say any high end brand of top performing LED's compare in light output and throw distance to other lights? Specifically, have 1X1 LED's replaced the need for the 2ft kino?
 
Just for reference I've used a set of IKAN LED on set, don't know what model, but these seem pretty close:

http://ikancorp.com/productdetail.php?id=347

And they rate their brightness at 3200 lux at 3ft. Ok, well the "Set Lighting Technician's Handbook" lists brightness in either Candellas (at no distance, I guess this is how candellas work?) and then in Foot Candles at various distances. Ok.

Now, I don't pretend to understand the math, but using a handy online "Lux to Candela calculator", 3200lx X 3ft = 2675 cd. According to the SLTH chart, this puts it just above a Kino-Flo Diva 400 at 2500 cd. Does this seem about right?
 
Kinos = softer (compared to a 1x1 LED), probably better color, have to be plugged in.

LEDs = some can dim, switch color easily, more portable.
 
I would key talent with Kinos but with LEDs i would do the same only in some extreme cases.
So get LEDs for very portable accent lights and Kinos for accents (less portable than LEDs) or keying your talent.
 
if you can afford kinos and dont care about easy batter powering. i say go with kinos. far better quality of light.

but in the last 2 years, ive shot 95% of all my interviews with surprisingly small LEDs and been more or less pleased with the result.
on the cheap what id get is fotodiox. a 1k a 500 and then an old lowel 250 prolight for hair/rim. that will do in all but rooms with great big windows.
 
Has anybody tried the Westcott Ice Light? They seem pricey but are extremely portable and look like they work well for one person waist up interviews. Or you can easily stick them behind things. I was thinking of getting a set for my ultra portable kit.
 
Lens rentals has the ice light if you want to give one a try... they seem kind of specialty to me, early reviewers weren't impressed with the output for the cost.

I had a couple scrim jim fabrics made for me that are black with a narrow strip of diffusion, it is a really pretty look for lower-key interviews or looks where you want some shadow & "mystery" but still soft & pretty, the ice lights look like they could be useful for something like that as well.
 
I got to play with the Celeb 200 a few months ago when the first came out. The design intention is essentially a drop in replacement for the standard 2ft 2 bank flo, and I feel like they were pretty successful at that. We used it as a key light and I didn't notice any strange colour casts, but I never really saw the footage afterwards to confirm that.
 
I will raise a voice of dissent to the Celeb lovefest, and that is that while it has decent color rendition, I do find that it has a magenta cast and I grew tired of having to correct it out with plus green, so I stopped using them. The LED's that I do consider usable on faces are the Literibbon products, Mactech and Fernando Flo tubes, Creamsource, Cineo and I'm about test out the Area 48 from BBS Lighting.

With the Fernando Flo's, which are T12 shaped KinoFlo tube replacements that we use bare or in standard Kino harnesses, I now have fully dimmable (via standard 110V dimmer!) legacy shaped units with clean output, switchable at the tube from 3200 to 5600. They aren't quite as bright as Kino tubes, but that's a small price to pay for their incredible utility. Sadly, they are exotic, rental-only and not cheap, but this concept will be emerging soon from other sources.

I haven't used a 1x1 Litepanel in two year, the color rendition was simply not good enough. I'm sure the newer ones are better though.
 
CharlesPapert said:
I will raise a voice of dissent to the Celeb lovefest, and that is that while it has decent color rendition, I do find that it has a magenta cast and I grew tired of having to correct it out with plus green, so I stopped using them. The LED's that I do consider usable on faces are the Literibbon products, Mactech and Fernando Flo tubes, Creamsource, Cineo and I'm about test out the Area 48 from BBS Lighting.

With the Fernando Flo's, which are T12 shaped KinoFlo tube replacements that we use bare or in standard Kino harnesses, I now have fully dimmable (via standard 110V dimmer!) legacy shaped units with clean output, switchable at the tube from 3200 to 5600. They aren't quite as bright as Kino tubes, but that's a small price to pay for their incredible utility. Sadly, they are exotic, rental-only and not cheap, but this concept will be emerging soon from other sources.

I haven't used a 1x1 Litepanel in two year, the color rendition was simply not good enough. I'm sure the newer ones are better though.
Click to expand...

I'm almost certain you are shooting with RED.
 
Actually gents, I think I'm around 90% Alexa, with the other 10% being mostly C300 and F55. Haven't shot RED since 2011, haven't shot film since 2009 (wow, that's...well, it is what it is).

I don't know what to say about the Celeb, I tried it several times (on Alexa jobs) and it tended to come up magenta. I could even see it to eye. I wanted to like it!
 
I like the Celeb, the output is genuinely soft and the colour versatility is a sweet feature. But the actual strength of the output was way too small for my tastes.

Colour and output-wise I'm yet to find anything I prefer more than the new remote phosphor units from Cineo and BBS (I've rented the Cineos and now own two of the Area48s). Colour rendering is better than Kino tubes, the spill is far more controllable than flos, and the output is tremendous for the size and power-draw. Having perfect 0-100% dimming (on the Area48s at least) is an incredible, wonderful, soul-enriching feature, the delight of which can't be understated.

The only real area that Flos win out is that the remote phosphor fixtures are IMO a little too small to key with directly if you want a soft, wrapping light (unless you gang them together - something both Cineo and BBS are now catering for). So I almost never put them directly on talent as a key (something I have no qualms doing with a Kino). Two Area48s with Snapbag Softboxes will give you roughly the same sized source as a Kino Diva, so at that point they're helpful as direct key lights, but I tend to put mine through frames.
 
CharlesPapert said:
I'm assuming to do the same with the Area 48--pushing it through 4x4 frames of 216 or 129, or bouncing it.
Click to expand...

Straight through a 4x4 works a treat, I generally use a Cardellini to mount a 4x4 of 216 on the same stand as the Area48 - which is a godsend when space is limited.
 
Grug said:
Straight through a 4x4 works a treat, I generally use a Cardellini to mount a 4x4 of 216 on the same stand as the Area48 - which is a godsend when space is limited.
Click to expand...
I'd be interested to see a picture of that setup. What do you use for fill?
 
Eric Coughlin said:
I'd be interested to see a picture of that setup. What do you use for fill?
Click to expand...

Here's a setup with a 2'x3', (this one using a grip arm instead of a cardellini) but it works just as well with a 4x4.

I11Bftd.jpg


I don't often use fill lights, but if I do, I'll generally put the second Area48 through it's softbox at a couple of percent intensity - it's the quickest and easiest fill light I've ever used since the dimming is perfect with zero colour shift, so you can dial it in precisely to where you want it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top