Kinefinity yanks compressed RAW formats

Meh, as exciting as the Mavo Edge sounds. Prores Raw remains a massive workflow headache. Until Apple makes it more universally accessible, and easier to work with - it's barely a viable recording codec anyway.
 
Wow! Finally happened.

Owned a KineMINI 4K back in 2015, which had CDNG and something called KineRAW (required a proprietary workflow).

Along with Blackmagic, they were both ahead of their time in terms of providing very high-quality internal recording options in lower cost cameras. In my mind, I had thought RED may not bother with Kinefinity (since it appeared they hadn't for years), but I guess they finally did as the company continued to make cameras (and better cameras).
 
While RED has several related patents, I believe patent 9,245,314 is the key one that covers RAW recording:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US9245314B2/en

This is the patent that Apple challenged the validity of to the Patent Trial and Appeal Board in 2019 through the Inter Partes Review process:
https://www.newsshooter.com/2019/11...tent-challenge-dismissed-by-us-patent-office/

RED's patent was upheld in that review process, and I believe that Apple decided not to appeal that decision to the Federal Circuit. Once the case gets to the Federal Circuit courts, it becomes a considerably more expensive process to pursue. The Inter Partes Review process for patents is relatively quick and relatively inexpensive (by legal standards), often costing in the six-figure range and taking about a year or two. In contrast, an appeal to the Federal Circuit would likely end up taking several years and costs could run in the seven-figure+ range depending on how long things dragged on.
 
Prores is the way to go. just so mich easier in post. files are a bit big, but play like butter.

tested the Mavo against the Red, and Red handles better in extreme lighting. But could have been user error on my part. Mavo seemed at least a stop behind in DR. whereas A7s3, C500ii etc all give Red’s a run on DR, the Mavo seemed obviously behind. unfortunately.

Inlove how the Mavo packs into a small case, and is rather easy to build. Startup and battery are dopeness. overall the feel of the Mavo image is great, and could easily shoot a feature or commercial.

looking forward to the Carbon thing they announced last year.

peace
 
Run&Gun said:
Well, well, well... Look what the cat dragged in... All it took was a little upheaval in this corner of the internet and some of the old timers decided to pop back in. ; ) Lol
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Kinfinity news is pretty exciting. they make a beasty little camera. having the opportunity to test it last year, figured i’d drop my two cents.

I really like shooting direct to ProRes too. Raw gives that nifty “iso” dropdown that people love, but i find i don’t use iso options in post ever. Prores just plays back nicer on any computer, which happens quite a lot that someone in the production chain has an old beater, and yeah, over prores just works. will be interesting to see how kinfinity fares without raw, Raw, RAW. haha.

hope it helps.

cheers
 
Hello, James. I'm glad you're alive --- although didn't really doubt it. I just figured you got sick of this place and needed a break, which is totally understandable ;)
 
ahalpert said:
... Yeah I hear tv dramas are all ProRes no raw
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There was a Rodney Charters interview (Newshooter at the NAB, I believe) from 2014 or so, where he admitted that they only shoot in ProRes. That was in the original Alexa 2.8K-to-HD era when he was working on the "Dallas" reboot.

But the Netflix require some cameras (like most of the BMD products or Varicam Pure) to deliver Raw footage, with some allowances for the various compression rates. Alexa LF's are allowed either ARRI Raw or ProRes 444.
 
Keep in mind when some TV productions say they are shooting on ProRes they may be talking about ProRes444 or ProRes444 XQ. Both are 4:4:4, RGB and 12bit formats. While not raw they provide some of the benefits raw would be used for. Higher color depth and RGB color space with no chroma sub sampling. I for one love raw because of the RGB 4:4:4 and 12 bit color. Some of the other benefits of raw are very nice of course but remember high end productions tend to get white balance and exposure right and are not likely pushing the grade to extreme levels unless its something like a dream sequence or some weird sci-fi effect.

The ProRes most of us have access to even the formats on the BMD Pocket cameras is plain old every day ProRes422 HQ. YUV color space, 4:2:2 chroma subsampling and 10bit color. Still a solid format of course but there is a pretty decent difference. 4:2:2 is a form of image compression as is YUV.

I have asked companies like BMD and Atomos to add support for ProRes444 for a few years now but I'm not sure if there are licensing issues for that. I realize few to no cameras send 4:4:4 to an external recorder but at the time I wanted to send 4k 4:2:2 and down convert in the recorder to 2k 4:4:4. I no longer need to worry about that and can record Braw in a format even smaller than 2k ProRes444. With Braw on the BMD I highly doubt we will ever see ProRes444 and really no longer need it.
 
Thomas Smet said:
I have asked companies like BMD and Atomos to add support for ProRes444 for a few years now but I'm not sure if there are licensing issues for that.
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BMD has had ProRes 444 and 444XQ since the first URSA in 2014 (both in HD and UHD but limited by HFRs for UHD - and also card speed at that time which was remedied by dual-CDNG recording until faster cards came out to shoot UHD PR 444XQ on one card).
 
NorBro said:
BMD has had ProRes 444 and 444XQ since the first URSA in 2014 (both in HD and UHD but limited by HFRs for UHD - and also card speed at that time which was remedied by dual-CDNG recording until faster cards came out to shoot UHD PR 444XQ on one card).
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I thought I clarified it was a desire for external recorders to down convert 4k to 2k and record as 444.
 
NorBro said:
BMD has had ProRes 444 and 444XQ since the first URSA in 2014 (both in HD and UHD but limited by HFRs for UHD - and also card speed at that time which was remedied by dual-CDNG recording until faster cards came out to shoot UHD PR 444XQ on one card).
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Also a desire for the Pocket cameras for those that would like to use FCPX or anything application that doesn't support Braw but would still like 4:4:4 12 bit. Its. huge deal to create proxies from Resolve but still an extra step.
 
Thomas Smet said:
I thought I clarified it was a desire for external recorders to down convert 4k to 2k and record as 444.
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ha...in that case the first step for BMD would be to actually support a 4K HDMI output.

Some of their older cameras with SDI can output 4K and if Convergent-Design was still around and booming, maybe they would support a 4K to 2K 444 conversion as they did with other cameras.
 
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