Kinefinity MAVO LF

nyvz said:
That's not an apples to apples comparison. Retail prices for Mavo are $8k body only, $9.5k with monitor, media, battery. Scarlet-w is $12.5k without a lens mount, and about $18k for a very basic kit. That's about twice the cost. Varicam is even more.
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The Mavo costs less than I realized. I saw the $13,000 price tag on the Kinefinity site, and didn't realize it was possible to get it for that much less.

That said, even at $13,000 it's a good deal, as long as support isn't an issue. I'd get one as a 2nd camera if I had the budget for it. Maybe in another year or so 🤔
 
I think the real question is going to become whether it's still a good deal if it has bad monitor lag, low quality monitoring, no US support and months-long lead times on all orders from China. Lack of built in ND is also a concern. I hope they upgraded the button quality too.

The LF definitely sounds promising but we'll see where the price comes in.
 
The button quality and the general PITA menu system were my biggest grips with the KineMINI 4K.

Lead time for it back in 2015 was a month but they shipped mine about a week earlier. Supposedly, they built them half way and then finished a camera when an order is placed.

For what it was (any language barriers), I thought the customer service was excellent, but expect only one/maybe two e-mails per day usually between 4am-6am EST.

The problem with these kind of camera purchases is that there will no doubt be something amazing in 2019-2020 for possibly even less than $5,000. The first thing that comes to mind is a new Blackmagic camera or even a FS8/FS9 new model that is just going to be bubbling with amazing features for a pretty reasonable price.

I'e said it before (and of course it's none of my business), but I don't know how people can buy $20K-$30K-$40K cameras and be happy, lol. This one is at least pretty reasonable for what it is, but a low-cost/high performance future looks brighter every day.
 
Kinefinity will be in their new location in May 2018. They are prepping for orders they recently received on Terra 4K's and MAVO's. ProAV in UK now an authorized distributor (click on link below). Here's the kicker, ProAV in the process of training reps to do ACTUAL REPAIRS at their facilities in Europe! Good progress for this company. I do like what I've seen in the last 6 months.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2API0CdRUcE
 
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So my friend who has a Terra 6K tells me they will let him give the camera back and pay a couple thousand to upgrade it to the Mavo... that's a sweet program if that's the case.
 
That trade-in is pretty cool...Kinefinity seems to have a bright future.

If anyone knows or remembers, you had to pay to unlock certain features in their older cameras (similar to ARRI licensing) a few years ago for higher resolutions, framerates (high-speed), for the SDI to be active, etc. One thing some people really don't like is that they dropped Cineform, but they then added ProRes, which is ideal and reveals a bit about their relationship with Apple, which says something about them because Apple (allegedly) doesn't approve anyone and everything so easily.

What's also interesting is that they also seemed to have dropped CinemaDNG somewhere along the way (I think), and only pushing their proprietary KineRAW format - via KineStation - and ProRes.
 
Who says they did it with Apple's permission? :p

That's sad if they dropped CinemaDNG. It should stay. It's not likely DaVinci, Premiere, etc.. will ever support KineRAW how I see it, but I hope I'm wrong.
 
mproust14 said:
I think the obvious reason these cameras aren't on the US market is because of the numerous intellectual property violations they would incur. You can sell cameras for a lot cheaper if you don't have to do the R & D :) I am shocked that people would actually purchase these cameras at the expense of the industry as a whole.
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That has absolutely nothing to do with it I believe, and you're just trying to spread FUD against them.

Kinefinity has distributors in various Western Countries already, although yes USA is absolutely crazy bonkers when it comes to IP laws vs other parts of the world, but still... I've spoken to a couple of people who considered being distributors for Kinefinity and IP was never even mentioned as a factor in their considerations.
 
nyvz said:
Lack of built in ND is also a concern.
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Here is your "built in" ND option:

http://www.kinefinity.com/shop/k2pl_ii_e_nd/


ntouched said:
Kinefinity will be in their new location in May 2018. They are prepping for orders they recently received on Terra 4K's and MAVO's. ProAV in UK now an authorized distributor (click on link below). Here's the kicker, ProAV in the process of training reps to do ACTUAL REPAIRS at their facilities in Europe! Good progress for this company. I do like what I've seen in the last 6 months.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2API0CdRUcE
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That is awesome news for European purchasers! (and hopefully soon the rest of the world)

What is this about moving to a new location, is Kinefinity moving HQs in China from one place to another?!

NorBro said:
The problem with these kind of camera purchases is that there will no doubt be something amazing in 2019-2020 for possibly even less than $5,000. The first thing that comes to mind is a new Blackmagic camera or even a FS8/FS9 new model that is just going to be bubbling with amazing features for a pretty reasonable price.
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Indeed, this is how I've felt about Kinefinity often over the years I've been following them. Every time they have brought something out it has looked AMAZING for its time and its price! But only until Blackmagic releases their next announcement..... and so it bounces back and forth between BMD and Kinefinity as to how in my eyes "has the lead".


starcentral said:
So my friend who has a Terra 6K tells me they will let him give the camera back and pay a couple thousand to upgrade it to the Mavo... that's a sweet program if that's the case.
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Kinefinity has I think perhaps always had this as an option? Or at least it kinda feels like it. And they've at times sold off the trade ins too.

I was a while ago very tempted to buy one of those "Battle Tested KineMini 4K cameras" when they were offered at a very low price.
 
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I probably started the IP possibility. It goes back to FFMPEG not really being legal because it can encode/decode mpeg without paying the ransom to the mpeg group. It is far too common for Chinese companies to tread heavily on copyrighted/patented works, almost as if the government encourages them to do so. Not saying this is why Kinefinity is not in the USA, but it could be one reason. I think they could do very well here if they were willing to set up a shop for service and support, but I bet there is some kind of government cost getting in their way.

Since CDNG is an "open" codec, it is a shame to see it go. I'll assume there are technical reasons behind this and not just greed to sell another product.
 
starcentral said:
Who says they did it with Apple's permission? :p

That's sad if they dropped CinemaDNG. It should stay. It's not likely DaVinci, Premiere, etc.. will ever support KineRAW how I see it, but I hope I'm wrong.
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It's listed as a MAVO feature; CinemaDNG

Compressed RAW CinemaDNG returns to MAVO, Kine camera again with configurable compression ratio! The codec is a big difference from TERRA. MAVO can in-camera record compressed RAW with CinemaDNG format, and the compression ratio is configurable, from 3:1, 5:1 to 7:1. Da Vinci Resolve natively supports CinemaDNG, so that you can directly import, edit and grade the CinemaDNG footage shot by MAVO in Davinci Resolve! No matter 3:1, 5:1 or 7:1, every format is able to achieve super high quality image and room for post-production.
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http://www.kinefinity.com/mavo/?lang=en

I think you are just trying to spread FUD :happy:
 
RED sued Sony over the RAW format on the F55 when it was released in 2013. That's right, let's patent recording data off a sensor BEFORE it is processed and debayered. :beer:

Patents being by country they are filed in, to sell a camera out of China or other countries where patents may not be filed is the best way to avoid expensive and lengthy law suits. (from what I know about law/legal system)


Tom Roper said:
It's listed as a MAVO feature; CinemaDNG

http://www.kinefinity.com/mavo/?lang=en

I think you are just trying to spread FUD :happy:
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He is right, Terra did not have cinemaDNG in-camaera. I think you misread his post or did I? :/
 
dcoughla said:
China is actually becoming a preferred venue for IP litigation, even for foreign companies http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2016/11/10/china-increasingly-preferred-venue-patent-litigation/id=74585/ I think it's much more likely that operating a business / distributing goods in the US requires a lot of paperwork and overhead and they're not ready yet. UK is probably easier to navigate given the Hong Kong connection.

So maybe cool it with the defamation and leave the law to lawyers?
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Sure thing. I'm sure you're more informed than I am. My mistake. Enjoy your cameras.
 
I wonder how the new US/China import tariffs are going to affect the pricing of these.
 
mproust14 said:
Sure thing. I'm sure you're more informed than I am. My mistake. Enjoy your cameras.
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Not sure anyone was talking to you, but... if you have legitimate evidence of IP theft, by all means post away. In the absence of evidence, it's defamation. (And actionable in several countries.)

Grug said:
I wonder how the new US/China import tariffs are going to affect the pricing of these.
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If the tariffs go into effect, the increase is 25% for select HTS codes (all items that get imported are classified under an HTS code before they arrive in the US). The proposed list of HTS codes that will be hit: https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/files/Press/Releases/301FRN.pdf

So it depends on how Kinefinity chooses to classify its equipment. The only camera class that I could see that seems directly affected is "Television Cameras." But the HTS codes for parts/accessories for "cinematographic cameras" are both listed, so you could see a jump on stuff like mounting plates and rigs. DJI's stabilizers may go up too.

All this is pending these things actually going into effect. It may all be bluster at this point.
 
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