Kinefinity Mavo Edge

Looking at it a bit more, it is actually innovative. I've not seen anything combine these features into such a small body before.

It's like Komodo meets Mini LF meets F55. Those operator controls on the side are going to be nice for indie filmers that might solo op. Given Kinifinity's past image quality and price range, things have gotten very good looking.
 
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Me too. Apparently there is at least a company in Burbank that's offering rentals and first-line tech support for Kinefinity cameras now. It also sounds like the European distributor network has gotten pretty solid lately. Either way though, it's a very promising camera... even though I still don't think that 8K is a necessity.

The CEO mentioned that it's color rendition will match well with that of the previous Mavo model, which bodes well for the Edge. He also said that there will be a trade-in program for current Kinefinity camera owners...
 
We'll probably all be shooting on Chinese cameras in 10 years...

Anyone have knowledge of Kinefinity reliability? Always an issue with small camera companies (z cam, BM, RED originally).

What do people think about advantages of buying C500mk2 vs Mavo Edge aside from max resolution and frame rates? Obviously eND could be nice...
 
ahalpert said:
We'll probably all be shooting on Chinese cameras in 10 years...
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Probably more like two... with few exceptions, most of manufacturing is already no longer in the US and most companies that do their design work in the US contract their manufacturing overseas, most often China. I know quite a few companies that chose to work with Chinese manufacturing companies because they could match neither the price nor the quality domestically.

As far as manufacturing might goes though... the next rising star appears to be Mexico.

Anyone have knowledge of Kinefinity reliability? Always an issue with small camera companies (z cam, BM, RED originally).
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I only know a few actual owners, and only via email and/or web, but there are dealers in Europe, and as far as I can tell Kinefinity is quite a hot item in China. In spite of quite a few teething problems early on, it seems like they've become pretty solid. I might pester the Burbank folks to see if I can get some more info out of them.

What do people think about advantages of buying C500mk2 vs Mavo Edge aside from max resolution and frame rates? Obviously eND could be nice...
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I don't know enough about the C500mk II to make a reasonable comparison, though one often underrated benefit that the Mavos offer that no one else has attempted that I know of is the odd approach to pixel binning. If you're using one of the open gate but lower resolution modes that allows it, the camera treats adjoining pixels as one pixel during the downsampling process, increasing the sensor's dynamic range.

It's similar in the end result to Red's HDRx, but rather than the down side being double the data rate and dealing with motion artifacts, the Mavo's approach reduces the recorded resolution to boost the dynamic range.
 
To me the new Edge seems to fit all my boxes for an upcoming purchase, I have the BMD Ursa G2 which is great. I want to do some anamorphic work and then need cameras with better "open gate" stuff if the finished version is gonna be 4K and not just 3K-ish. The color science from the Mavo LF looks really nice so if it is the same or better I'm game. Also, it will work much better on gimbals than the Ursa...

The 8K isn't that much of a selling factor to me, since I wouldn't be shooting that unless I know I need to re-frame/stabilize, VFX...
 
I'm sure most know but maybe it's not quite clear for some visitors based on some of the phrasing here, but they do ship cameras to the United States.

I purchased a KineMINI back in 2015. They used to half build the cameras and then finish building them once an order was placed and payment was made. About 3 weeks to New York.

Not sure what they are up to these days with production, customer service, etc. but I like to see the company alive and well.
 
Tamerlin said:
... As far as manufacturing might goes though... the next rising star appears to be Mexico.
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BMW has opened a new plant there a while back. (for the 5-series, I believe) $5/hr labor compared to ... $30'ish in the US.

However, Canon and Nikon have plans in Thailand, while Olympus has moved to Vietnam. Furthermore, the Japanese government is offering huge incentives for the move back to Japan from China and even some to just leave China.

And, the actual labor component of an electronic product is negligible compared to its retail price anyway.

https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0912/the-cost-of-making-an-iphone.aspx

And this - As Konstantin Kakaes wrote in the MIT Technology Review in 2016, putting together the iPhone in the US from parts made abroad would only cost about $30 to $40 more per phone, a modest increase for a device with a 64 percent profit margin. Even if every part was made in the US, an iPhone would cost about $100 more, Kakaes concluded, assuming raw materials were still purchased on global markets.
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https://www.vox.com/technology/2018/9/13/17851052/apple-iphone-price-china-trump-us-trade

It's Vox, which doesn't hide its political agenda, which is why I just excerpted the pertinent part.
 
NorBro said:
... Not sure what they are up to these days with production, customer service, etc. but I like to see the company alive and well.
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Any competition is nice for the consumer but Canon and Sony are dominating the low-to-mid end professional video camera market. Between FX6, FX9, C200, C300 MKIII, C500 MKII, there are five models in the $5,500-$16,000 range. And this doesn't count anything from Panasonic or Red. It's pretty hard for an independent to break through now.
 
Cinema cameras are a second project for the company. They mostly specialized in Astronomy cameras/equipment.

If they are still only building cameras when orders come through then they can stay around for as long as they would like.

But I also have a feeling they will eventually strike a deal with B&H/Adorama if they want to continue this. RED eventually did (and not sure why they did, but it appeared to come at a time a few years ago when things really started to drastically change) and I think it was a good move (even though they are an American company).
 
Tamerlin said:
Me too. Apparently there is at least a company in Burbank that's offering rentals and first-line tech support for Kinefinity cameras now. It also sounds like the European distributor network has gotten pretty solid lately. Either way though, it's a very promising camera... even though I still don't think that 8K is a necessity.

The CEO mentioned that it's color rendition will match well with that of the previous Mavo model, which bodes well for the Edge. He also said that there will be a trade-in program for current Kinefinity camera owners...
Click to expand...

They don't have it listed yet but I am only 45 minutes from them, I may rent the Edge when it become available. I'm intrigued, there is a lot to like there.
https://www.origincine.com/product-category/cameras/kinefinity/
 
DLD said:
Any competition is nice for the consumer but Canon and Sony are dominating the low-to-mid end professional video camera market. Between FX6, FX9, C200, C300 MKIII, C500 MKII, there are five models in the $5,500-$16,000 range. And this doesn't count anything from Panasonic or Red. It's pretty hard for an independent to break through now.
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Unless they are really inexpensive like ZCAM, whose new cameras, when they were shipping, seemed to be getting some interest?
 
ahalpert said:
We'll probably all be shooting on Chinese cameras in 10 years...

Anyone have knowledge of Kinefinity reliability? Always an issue with small camera companies (z cam, BM, RED originally).

What do people think about advantages of buying C500mk2 vs Mavo Edge aside from max resolution and frame rates? Obviously eND could be nice...
Click to expand...

Mainly comes down to client perception and that they are pretty different type cameras. Also, AF. If you shoot for yourself mainly or have clients who don't care what you shoot, the Edge looks pretty interesting.
If you shoot for clients who care what you shoot on, Kinefinity is going to be a hard sell. And AF, for me, is super useful. But I have to give Kinefinity props, it looks to be quite an amazing package for the $1,000.00
more than an FX9 or a C300 MKIII.

It strikes me as more of a narrative camera for crewed productions while the FX9 and C300 MKIII are great for OMB and smaller crew shoots where you may not have an AC or two.
For me personally, I much prefer the slightly more friendly to shoulder form factor of the FX9 or C300 MKIII, I really dislike the RED-like form factor. Sharp edged shoe boxes are the worst ergonomics for me and
I would have no plans to fly a $12k body on a drone or gimbal but YMMV. It seems like the majority of buyers think they're going to fly their higher end cameras on drones or gimbals because shoe boxes are taking
over the world.
 
puredrifting said:
Unless they are really inexpensive like ZCAM, whose new cameras, when they were shipping, seemed to be getting some interest?
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Off B&H sales rankings, they're doing pretty well. The images one can find online are also quite nice. A few of the narrative doco shorts I saw look very pretty.

They, obviously, require some rigging, which brings their ready-to-shoot price upwards. I assume they mostly compete against the BMD Pocket4K and Pocket6K.

But walking onto a crewed set with them would require some chutzpah.
 
ahalpert said:
Unless it's the type of set where everyone is thanking you for being there because you're working for free
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I am on a couple of ZCAM FB Groups. Kinson Loo and his partners are on there every day, which is impressive and the cameras have a lot of potential
buit it appears a lot of growing pains. HDMI out only really precludes them from serious crewed work, The ZRAW workflow is a mess, but there is
something there. In a couple of years, if they add SDI, figure out an integrated BM RAW or ProRes RAW workflow and fix some of the design issues, they may graduate
up to the higher level work. They are a lot of bang for the buck and I've seen some good work on those FB groups produced with the cameras.
 
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