Ken Freed comments

" If I write that if you can't use this camera, the Panasonic Varicam may be just right for you, then you may respond with a nasty comment about me or about the cost of the Varicam. But that is the point, isn't it. Every camera has limits. Every lens has limits. So you make your decision."

- Ken Freed
JVC Regional Sales Engineer

From- http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=358269&postcount=16

Nice to see a manufacturer tell folks to get a life. What the hell do you expect for the money? We live in a spoiled society where those that want to make a living doing it demand more than the guys who make a living doing the real thing. It shows that marketing hype masks reality.
 
Indeed. As I have written before...

Well, some people here on the forum go nuts over the upcoming HVX, but since it's at the same price-point... you're better expecting about the same quality or you might be dissapointed...
 
Absolutely! It's all subjective for any camera in the same price range. Somehow folks think that the HVX is going to look incredibly different than nay other camera that has the same style electronics and cost the same. That's what folks thought with DV too but any DV camera in the same price range makes about the same picture with subjective tastes determining the winner.
 
Couldn't have said it better myself...

(Besides, at this price point, I'm already happy with a REAL lens - no XL-alike -, native 16/9, nice DV-footage and fine ergonomics. Al the other stuff (HDV, ...) is a bonus.)
 
You can certainly tell the difference when editing different camera's footage together! Doubt it bother's a layman much though!

The most important factor in determining output quality is obviously the operator.
 
Walter_Graff said:
" If I write that if you can't use this camera, the Panasonic Varicam may be just right for you, then you may respond with a nasty comment about me or about the cost of the Varicam. But that is the point, isn't it. Every camera has limits. Every lens has limits. So you make your decision."

- Ken Freed
JVC Regional Sales Engineer

From- http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=358269&postcount=16

Nice to see a manufacturer tell folks to get a life. What the hell do you expect for the money? We live in a spoiled society where those that want to make a living doing it demand more than the guys who make a living doing the real thing. It shows that marketing hype masks reality.
Click to expand...

I don’t know Walter, I feel that just because the next camera up cost thousands of dollars more doesn’t give JVC the right to sell what is essentially a malfunctioning product. Especially one that cost $6,000.00. For some of us, $6,000.00 aint chump change. I agree that the camera shouldn’t have HDCAM quality for 6k, but all this business about dead pixels and split screens is unacceptable, AT ANY PRICE RANGE.
 
I think this *is* some new information--at least with regard to JVC's policy on the matter. It boils down to JVC doing what it can with the firmware, but if you buy the camera--you have no right to expect that the problem/limitation will be fixed. It's promising that they're still devoting resources to minimizing the issue, but no one can predict the success of the fix.

Once you get to the $3000 and above price point, users will be carefully scrutinizing the performance of a camera--I think manufacturers have to expect that. So I think you have to accept the camera as is or wait a few months and see where it all ends up. If they can minimize to effect to where it's completely invisible at 0 db of gain, I think that's reasonable for some users. I never use the gain on my DVX because of the noise and the nature of what I shoot.

As for the HVX, my expectation is that it have noticebly better image quality because of the codec and Panasonic's track record. But if it's a step up on the HD ladder, so is the price. Not a huge jump if you consider the current non-P2 capture solutions, but still a step up.
 
Remember when the DVX100 first came out and Panasonic locked out any gain or auto focus in 24P modes?
Everyone was pissed at the time because they thought "Panasonic should have left the gain and autofocus enabled for the user to decide if it was usable or not." Then they released the 100A and enabled the gain and useless autofocus.
JVC has done the opposite and left gain levels accessible up to +18dB and some complain because they see a flaw when shooting at +12 or higher in no light. Personally, I would never shoot in a gain level that high because the real flaw is the noise.
I can't even imagine a situation in the PROFESSIONAL world of cinematography where the light levels were so low that +12, +15 or +18dB would be worth the visible grain. You'd be better off shooting "night-vision" on a Sony handycam.
I generally limit myself to +3 (maybe +6) and then adjust the gamma in post. There is enough information in the lower IRE to acheive the same exposure as +12 ~ 15dB with much more control of the noise. Trust me on this: We did a whole 13 part documentary series on nightlife in Montréal with available street light and the original DVX100 on 0dB gain and 1/48th shutter. The dailies looked really dark, but once I used the 3-way colour corrector in FCP, it looked like 1600ASA film. A bit of grain/noise was introduced, but not even close to the amount visible when gain is used.

Look, I'm not trying to say that the split screen thing isn't worrisome, but I trust JVC when they tell me that as of September, their new QC standards will mean that no miscalibrated units will be shipped to customers. (so now you everyone can start complaining about availability.)
I was one of the unlucky ones to receive two units with split-screen visible in +3db. However, I was lucky to receive two of the first cameras shipped in North America, have time to thoroughly test each one for flaws, return the cameras and receive brand new ones the same day, and now be fully prepared to start shooting a feature in two weeks.
 
dashwood said:
... The dailies looked really dark, but once I used the 3-way colour corrector in FCP, it looked like 1600ASA film. A bit of grain/noise was introduced, but not even close to the amount visible when gain is used.
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Just wondering what you found were the best settings to do this dash? I am always having to lighten up run and gun footage.
 
mmm said:
Just wondering what you found were the best settings to do this dash? I am always having to lighten up run and gun footage.
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Using the 3-way CC in FCP, my general procedure is to first increase the mids (25IRE to 75IRE range) until you get the desired exposure for skin tone. Your highlights (50 - 100 IRE range) might be too bright now, so back them off a bit until it looks natural, and not hard clipping. The first mids adjustment may have brought up some areas around 25IRE that you had hoped would still be black, so just crush the blacks back down a little bit (0-50IRE range) until your image is at the desired contrast level.
The other side effect of raising the mids is that you will lose some saturation, so increase the saturation slider to the desired level. Now you can use the colour wheels to colour correct any white balance errors or adjust skin tone. Start with mids again, then the highlights. Try not to adjust the blacks colour wheel unless absolutely necessary.

That's it. You can achieve a 2 or 3 ƒstop gain without too much added grain.

Tim
 
Thanks Tim.

It is similar to what I do at the moment, but I always find it goes a little "flat" and uncontrasty.
 
While I await my second HD100U, I'll ask the forum for advice with premiere pro. Is it true that to get the best rendered mpg's as final output I should get some kind of hardware card from matrox? Can anyone tell me more about this? I have captured some video via firewire with no card and it's more pixelated that I'd expect a 3chip camera source to produce, is my problem the CODEC?
 
The problem is that if you crush the blacks too much, you end up where you started.

I guess by the nature of the process you will loose quality. I have some very, very dark footage from my sister-in-law's wedding that I'll have a play with. The bloody waiter kept dimming the lights during the speeches! GRRRR!
 
mmm said:
The problem is that if you crush the blacks too much, you end up where you started.
Click to expand...

That's not true. In the 3-way colour corrector Blacks are 0 to 50 IRE, Mids are 25 to 75 IRE, and Whites are 50 to 100IRE. Notice the overlap. This is what makes the control in post so much different than just boosting the gain levels of everything in camera.

Talented colourists can do wonders with underexposed footage simply because of this separate control of ranges.

Someone post a clean untouched frame grab of something that you think was too dark and you wished you had had gain turned up. I'll colour correct it and post it back.

On second thought, maybe I'll add it to my list of tests I still have to perfom on the camera.

Tim
 
dashwood said:
That's not true. In the 3-way colour corrector Blacks are 0 to 50 IRE, Mids are 25 to 75 IRE, and Whites are 50 to 100IRE. Notice the overlap. This is what makes the control in post so much different than just boosting the gain levels of everything in camera.

Talented colourists can do wonders with underexposed footage simply because of this separate control of ranges.

Someone post a clean untouched frame grab of something that you think was too dark and you wished you had had gain turned up. I'll colour correct it and post it back.

On second thought, maybe I'll add it to my list of tests I still have to perfom on the camera.

Tim
Click to expand...

Very true Tim. I'm guessing your on FCP? I'm on Liquid Edition. I think the color corrector is equally powerful between the two. I did some color correction on your waterfall.

I brought the black level way down and the highlights way up and then use the soft clip to legalize it. The contrast held well and I used uncompressed 2VUY to render it. BTW there IS a jump cut in the footage.
Click here to view or right click and save. The footage survives some adjustment well.

I made the original scene into an Autumn scene instead.
Click here to view or right click and save. This was also rendered uncompressed 2VUY.

How are you capturing the m2t's?
 
I have to say if the split screen is only visible at +18, it´s of no problem whatsoever for me personally.
I never had to gain to more than +6e in 5 years of working, and I don´t think I ever will.
(And if I did it most likely wouldn´t be broadcasted, but ended up in the cutting room)
 
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