K 5600 releasing joker2 in 2018.

[JPNola]

I think it undeniable that as a result of the low cost of many LED lighting units they are consumed in a more disposable manner and in that are less environmentally friendly than traditional types of lighting units that lasted longer ( were more durable ), were better taken care of, and were not as quickly chucked aside for the latest greatest new tech. I have many LED units that I no longer use after only a couple years of owning them. None of the hot-lights I purchased had as short of a life for me. You generally did not purchase a 650w ARRI fresnel and cease using it after 2 years because it broke and the cost to fix it isn't worth it...or cease using it because a new style of tungsten fresnel came along. You owned it and used it for a decade or more in many cases. I have LED lights that I no longer use only a couple of years after purchasing them.

 

[Run&Gun]

Are you saying that Jokers are not built tough for real world field use? Joker HMI's are the industry standard for ENG crews and they are also widely used on feature film productions. Is that not "real world field use"? The knock on the Bron Kobold was that it wasn't built as well as the Jokers, had fewer features ( no "bug" capability ) and it was more bulky- thus the lower price. I've never seen a Bron Kobold HMI being used on a feature film. Bron / Kobold's roots are more in still photography than in cinematography / video production. Bron specialized in units for flash photography. K5600, I believe, was founded by folks working in cinema.

Full disclosure, I own a Joker 400 and a Joker 800. But I have used a Bron Kobold 1200w hmi extensively.

I think you have it backwards. K5600 Jokers are the higher-end, higher quality light with more features. A Broncolor Kobold HMI is what you get if you are too cheap to buy the good stuff. Or if you are a still photographer. Which is the same thing. rogar-BigGrin(DBG)

See, this guy gets it. ; )

But seriously, yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. Sorta. I don't mean they are complete junk and are going to fall apart just taking them out of the case, but compared to a Bron Kobold, Jokers are not built as tough. I stand by my comment that the Jokers became so popular because of price(lower than Arri and Brok Kobold) and compact size.

I'll be honest, I had never even heard of Bron Kobold HMI's until I started thinking about buying my first one around 2003(?). I was in my local Barbizon and they had a 400 BK open face focusable unit on display. I started asking about it and they told me it was weather resistant and dimmable, things the Joker wasn't. Plus not having to deal with lenses(no one I knew used the newsbeamer on jokers and I still haven't seen one in real life). So when it came time to buy an HMI, I went with the Bron Kobold and have never regretted it. I owned a 400 for a few years until it was stolen, then I replaced it with an 800. Then I added a second.

Joker's on the other hand... I used to shoot for a guy in my early years who owned several 400's. They all fell apart. When I used to be on the road with a traveling series, the other guy that I shot with said he would buy the HMI for our traveling package and he bought a Joker 800, because it was cheaper that the BK, which I tried to tell him to buy(his personal HMI's were Arri's, BTW). We had many issues with the Joker 800. I mean it had a lot of punch, but it also had lots of broken stuff and several repairs. The heads are fragile compared to BK's and Arri's. When he was "fired", I replaced his Joker with a new BK 800. I still own both BK's today. Except for the repair to one that was knocked straight to the ground from ~15' in the air, I just had my first real need for service from the original 800 that I bought back in '06. It had to have a few parts replaced in the ballast.

Concerning the "old" Jokers and BK's, the only real advantage I see in the Jokers is the ability to put a Source Four/Leko barrel on it. And that's great, if you need that ability. 90% of what I light with an HMI is people outside and I needed to tweak the light very quickly based on changing lighting conditions and a dimmable and focusable unit means a lot more to me than being able to put a Source Four/Leko barrel on it.

But, one great thing about this industry, especially now, is that there are a lot of choices for gear and you can buy what you like and meets your needs.

 

[Run&Gun]

I think it undeniable that as a result of the low cost of many LED lighting units they are consumed in a more disposable manner and in that are less environmentally friendly than traditional types of lighting units that lasted longer ( were more durable ), were better taken care of, and were not as quickly chucked aside for the latest greatest new tech. I have many LED units that I no longer use after only a couple years of owning them. None of the hot-lights I purchased had as short of a life for me. You generally did not purchase a 650w ARRI fresnel and cease using it after 2 years because it broke and the cost to fix it isn't worth it...or cease using it because a new style of tungsten fresnel came along. You owned it and used it for a decade or more in many cases. I have LED lights that I no longer use only a couple of years after purchasing them.

Yep. Comparatively speaking, LED tech is still very young and still evolving. So anything bought even just a few years ago is way behind what is out now. Anything LED purchased a few years ago probably does not produce as pleasing and accurate light as new LED lights, not to mention probably not as powerful, either. The only thing that has really changed with tungsten and HMI units over the last few years is better reflectors which can give you higher output(like Arri's 750w open face tungsten units that are equal to 1K's, because of the reflector redesign). And as the LED's age and the electronics age or the units get damaged, it can negatively affect he color of the light they put out. A 30 year old Arri fresnel will still look good 30 years from now. When you drop a unit and break a lamp or the lamp goes from old age, you replace the lamp for a few bucks. I had to replace a Litepanel Sola ENG a few years ago, because it took a good bump during shipping and the light turned purple(it was daylight only). It was going to cost within a few dollars of a brand new unit to fix it.