JVC HD100 focus problems!!!

Barry - Your expertise and comments are, as always, invaluable. Thank you very much for your thorough explaination - it literally clears away (virtually) all my confusion about a complicated subject matter.

I do have one more question, specifically about film making and HDV. Assuming there are at least 10 takes of a scene, should the threat of drop-outs be as a big concern (as the editor could cut around them if necesary) to film makers as they would to live event information gatherers (ie- sports, weddings, etc)? I only plan on using the camera (whichever one it turns out to be) for film making, specifically horror films... Thanks once again Barry. John Vincent
 
In filmmaking, I'd say you should most definitely be shooting to HDV Rack, so dropouts would be a nonexistent threat! ;)

But, assuming you simply must shoot to tape and only to tape... again, it depends on what you're shooting. I'll say this: we finished a medim-budget picture here where if you split out the budget based on days in production, it was probably fifteen to twenty grand a day. In other words, we were spending a lot of money on basically everything. And when it all comes down to it, everything you're doing is going to end up on that tape. If all that money in front of the camera gets sacrificed because of errors a cheap tape... well, that's about the worst example of "false economy" I can think of. You have to be solid. You have to be sure.

Certainly you can cut around a lot of stuff in an indie film type of circumstance... you are correct there. In irreplaceable stuff like an interview for a documentary it'd be much more of a concern; in shooting a wedding, a 1/2-second dropout during the vows would be a pretty bad thing to have happen; but in scripted dramatic narrative you can probably cut around it. But what do you do when the dropout hits in the middle of the best take? Scream and curse, I'd wager. Which is why I say, use HDV Rack or the FireStore and it won't be an issue, you'll always have a second, dropout-proof version.

(BTW, 10 takes of each scene?! That's like extreme overkill to the max. If you're shooting on a low-enough budget that you're using HDV, then you should probably be aiming for a max of two or maybe three takes per scene.) Remember, tape is cheap, but time is not. Time and people and food and location fees and insurance costs and permits and equipment rentals and all that other stuff really adds up, and if you're not getting the picture done because you're doing take 7, take 8, take 9, take 10... that's a recipe for doom there. Do some rehearsals (when it's only you and your actors, not the full crew and all the equipment) and get it DOWN PAT so that when you get on set you can get it in the can in two or three takes and move on...
 
At the end of the day, you can't really go wrong either way, but here's something for you to think about. HDV downsamples to DVCPro50 just fine. Yes, there is the possiblity of dropouts in the recording but how often has that happened when you don't mix tape brands? Not very often. Tape is a terrific way of archiving and still the standard for the computer industry (which is what were talking about really with digital video). I've had more solid state devices (thumb drives and SD cards) go bad than tapes any year so there is some opportunity for failure there.

Tape, whether you like it or not, is the most economical way to archive content (files). It is not economical when in context with DVCProHD because of the price of the deck and the tapes as well (as guru pointed out). I'd wager if the tapes and deck were economical for DVCProHD that people would be on it like flies on shi.... We'll you know what flies are attracted to. Tape makes sense when talking about archiving so I can't say I agree with B.Green. There are a lot of hidden cost with the HVX200.

Also at the end of the (same) day it comes down to the delivery format anyway so if your working HDV on a timeline or DVCProHD it get's sent to DVD or BetaSP or film and rarely goes back to the original format for delivery with a couple of exceptions, one of which is m2t which is HDTV's transport stream. Not very many broadcasters (television) can handle anything other than BetaSP or DVCPro50 on the digital side.

I don't like capturing from tape either but archived tape indexes allow offline storage of video unlike what you need for direct to disk. It's a whole new can of worms when you go direct with online or nearline content $$$$$$. Remember content will grow!!! You may have to start looking at a fiber linked DASD in order to keep content online. In the Pinnacle broadcast world there is such an animal called a Vortex server which allows P2 ingest and XDCam ingest and stores content to the Palladium store (big name for a big storage and database). I realize this is more than a single camera but the principle will be the same on a smaller scale. What to do with the DVCProHD content?

We've had these same conversations between Discreet Smoke users and ChromeHD users about the 10 bit content compaired to 8 bit content. True the 10 bit is way better but at a high price for storage which makes most work in 8 bit unless they have some big storeage resources and a powerful fiber network.

I think anyone thinking about P2 and keeping the content should be made aware of the storage requirement if you want to archive any content. These types of detail are always overlooked because of the focus on the camera's capabilities and the image quality (which is paramount) but you have to accomodate the camera and format from every angle which includes content storage and content manipulation.

Put some thought to it, what will you master your DVCProHD project to? Can't be DVD. Can't be tape unless you spring for a rental/purchase of the deck and the price of the tapes. Could be magnetic firewire drives or removable drives but do the math on a 60 minute slot and you'll see the storeage requirement is quite large. A 1 1/2 to 2 hour movie is large as well. I like P2 for sure but the workflow only favors the larger studios and not medium to small shops.

good luck on you decision...
 
Barry_Green said:
If all that money in front of the camera gets sacrificed because of errors a cheap tape... well, that's about the worst example of "false economy" I can think of. You have to be solid. You have to be sure.
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But if you shoot away all day on P2 and dump to hard disk via laptop as I go, what happens if the Hard disk goes down!? Then you are really f*@cked!

I have had several hard disks go bad, loosing all the data. The last tape I had "break" was back in the days of VHS, and even then I was able to retrieve all the data using a screwdriver and sticky tape.

Talking about dropout, I have only even had one instance of it over a take I wanted to use. I simply painted it out in commotion - a pain yes, but not a problem. Since using DVCAM, I have never noticed a single dropout, and that is using $1.50 tapes. (I have seen some REALLY nasty dropout on material clients have given me, but that is their problem/fault... God knows how they manage it!)

P2 has risks too unless you lug around a RAID storage, but for most people, that is not an option. Once P2 prices drop and I can shoot all day before returning home and dumping to a secure redundant raid, then I will be happy and join you in you praise of P2. Until then, it is going to be a major pain in the arse.
 
Barry_Green said:
(BTW, 10 takes of each scene?! That's like extreme overkill to the max. If you're shooting on a low-enough budget that you're using HDV, then you should probably be aiming for a max of two or maybe three takes per scene.) Remember, tape is cheap, but time is not. Time and people and food and location fees and insurance costs and permits and equipment rentals and all that other stuff really adds up, and if you're not getting the picture done because you're doing take 7, take 8, take 9, take 10... that's a recipe for doom there. Do some rehearsals (when it's only you and your actors, not the full crew and all the equipment) and get it DOWN PAT so that when you get on set you can get it in the can in two or three takes and move on...
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I always plan is 3 or 4 takes, but quite some scenes end up with 10-take (or more) footage... :embarasse

talent can't seem to hold laughter, enexpected noises, soundman sneezing, dog barking, planes passing buy, talent forgot lines (why do they call it 'talent, by the way :grin: ), prop malfunction, ....
 
mezelf27 said:
I always plan is 3 or 4 takes, but quite some scenes end up with 10-take (or more) footage... :embarasse

talent can't seem to hold laughter, enexpected noises, soundman sneezing, dog barking, planes passing buy, talent forgot lines (why do they call it 'talent, by the way :grin: ), prop malfunction, ....
Click to expand...

I reckon I average between 3 and 4 takes per shot. However sometimes it is far, far more! Once we went to 63! I was cameraman and not directing though. take 63 at 4am is not fun, it was very, very funny though, everyone had the giggles - the director had to leave the room and watch the monitor in the hallway, and I had to stop shooting handheld, as I couldn't hold the camera steady!

I will keep shooting until I get what I need, it is very apparent if you don't - ie soap operas.
 
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